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Peter Gottlieb: This is an interview with Mr. Lee C. of 921 Cliff Street,
North Braddock, Pennsylvania, recorded on June 9th, 1976, at-- home. [long
pause] Uh, can you tell me a little bit about your parents, where they were
born, what kind of work they did? Lee Lee C.: Well, my father. He's a
preacher. Gottlieb: And your mother?
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Lee C.: My mother-- just did housework.
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Gottlieb: Uh huh. Do you know where they were born?
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Lee C.: Yeah. Was in Clarksville, Virginia. Both of them born Clarksville,
Virginia. Gottlieb: Clarksville? Lee C.: Yeah. Virginia.
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Gottlieb: What part of the state is that? Lee C.: Hm? Gottlieb: What part
of the state is that?
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Lee C.: There-- in Virginia. That's Virginia. State of Virginia.
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Gottlieb: [simultaneous talking] Is it northern or southern? Do you know?
Lee C.: [simultaneous talking] Southern. Gottlieb: Southern part of
Virginia. Is it-- Is it around Richmond? Is it around Richmond? Lee C.:
Yeah.
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Lee C.: That's out of Richmond.
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Gottlieb: Uh, did your father make a living being a minister, or did he
have to--
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Lee C.: He would have to work if he could, to make that.
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Gottlieb: Uh huh. Can you tell me what kind of work he did?
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Lee C.: He worked at the mill.
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Gottlieb: What kind of mill?
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Lee C.: ______[??] mill. I'd make fertilizer. He worked there.
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Gottlieb: Was that a steady job all year round?
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Lee C.: Yeah. That's a steady job. Yeah.
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Gottlieb: He did that all his life?
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Lee C.: Yeah, he did it his whole life, 'cause it was his job.
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Gottlieb: How many brothers and sisters did you have? Lee C.: Well, I--
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Lee C.: Had two brothers and three sisters.
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Gottlieb: There were eight of you in all in the family. Are you the oldest
or second oldest or--
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Lee C.: No, there's one died that was older than I was.
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Gottlieb: What-- Which. Which child are you? First, the second, the third.
Do you remember?
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Lee C.: I'm 'bout the-- I'm 'bout the seventh [??] child.
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Gottlieb: When you were living at home with your parents, did anybody else
live with you besides your brothers and sisters and your parents?
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Lee C.: No. Was no room for 'em.
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Gottlieb: Did-- Did you have relatives living around Clarksville? Your
father's brothers or sisters or your mother's brothers or sisters?
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Lee C.: You see, I didn't-- I didn't know about-- about them. But then
when I come from there, I was about three years old. I couldn't remember
nothing then. Gottlieb: Oh, I see. Lee C.: Yeah, I remember, 'cause it was
my father's people.
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Gottlieb: So you came up here when you were only three?
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Lee C.: I came from south Virginia to Richmond. I was about three years
old.
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Gottlieb: I see. Your family moved there? Lee C.: Yeah. Gottlieb: Why did
they move?
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Lee C.: Well, my father, he got a job in Richmond. We didn't have no
farm.
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Gottlieb: Doing what? What kind of-- What kind of work did he get?
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Lee C.: He worked at the mill, I told you. ________[??] Yeah.
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Gottlieb: Had you been living on a farm in Clarksville?
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Lee C.: No, didn't have no farm.
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Gottlieb: And so you grew up in-- In Richmond. In the city. Lee C.: Mhm.
Gottlieb: Uh, do you know anything about your grandparents, where they were
from, what kind of work they did in their lives? Lee C.: No, I
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Lee C.: Didn't know, I was too small for to know that.
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Gottlieb: Did any of your relatives move up to Pennsylvania or any other
place in the North besides you?
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Lee C.: Well, my brother. My brother come up here before I did. Gottlieb:
He did? Lee C.: Yeah. And I come up here after he come up here.
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Gottlieb: He moved up to Pittsburgh area?
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Lee C.: Yeah. In Pittsburgh area, in Braddock here.
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Gottlieb: How much schooling were you able to get in Richmond?
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Lee C.: I went to school 'fore _______[??] the government.
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Gottlieb: Do you remember very much about the school? Lee C.: Hm?
Gottlieb: Do you remember very much about the school?
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Lee C.: Yeah, I remember the school.
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Gottlieb: Can you describe it to me a little bit? What it used to be like
to go to school back at that period of time?
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Lee C.: Well, at that time you could go to school if you want to or leave
it alone. That time wasn't like it is now. See, when I first, when the
children would come to school, to go to school, there wasn't a truant
officer would come down and give us that, wasn't nothing like that. You go
to school if you want. If you didn't leave alone.
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Gottlieb: Mhm. Did the school used to be in session nine months of the
year like it is now?
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Lee C.: Yes.
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Gottlieb: Do you remember your teachers at all?
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Lee C.: Yeah, I remember the teachers. I had a math teacher named Mr.
Williams. Oh, he wouldn't be older than 25 years.
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Gottlieb: Do you remember the-- whether or not your parents had you do any
chores around the house when you were just a young boy helping them out?
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Lee C.: Yeah, you had clean up. Clean up and scrub and keep the yard and
everything. And cutting wood. Yeah. Was no gas, nothing like that then. No,
no coal. No gas. No electric. _______[??]
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Gottlieb: What was the first job you had that you earned money at?
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Lee C.: Drivin' grocery wagon.
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Gottlieb: Can you tell me a little bit about how you got the job and what
kind of work you had?
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Lee C.: Color folk around, clear the soaps [??]. I just haul what to get
what people want to go through, get wood and coal and stuff like, carry
that to them.
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Gottlieb: How long did you have that job?
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Lee C.: Oh. Probably about three or four years, and then I left there and
went to a poker run [??]. I wasn't getting but $3 a week. The color fellow.
I worked for a white fellow. Pick bottles.
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Gottlieb: How old were you when you first started working at this job?
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Lee C.: Probably 14 years old.
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Gottlieb: Was this just after you had stopped going to school? Lee C.: Hm?
Gottlieb: Did you get this job just after you quit school? Lee C.:
[simultaneous talking] Yeah. Yeah. Gottlieb: Do you remember whether your
parents wanted you to continue in school at that time?
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Lee C.: Now I'm just tellin' you, way it was, didn't compel you. The
people wouldn't make you go to school. You know, if you say you didn't want
to go, you wouldn't go. Gottlieb: Yeah. Lee C.: You know, whole lot
different than it is now. Gottlieb: Yeah.
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Gottlieb: Did your parents need the money that you would be earning? Lee
C.: Oh, yeah. Gottlieb: So you would be turning it over to them?
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Lee C.: Turn it over to them. Get about two dollars a week, I give 'em a
full no [??]. I just made two dollars _____[??].
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Gottlieb: Did they let you have any of it? They give any back to you?
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Lee C.: I didn't need none of it. Gottlieb: You didn't? Lee C.: No, 'cause
I wasn't in school or nothing. They give me candy and everything like I
want, that's all I.
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Gottlieb: What was the next job you had after you were-- after you were
hauling groceries for this white man?
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Lee C.: I got a job at the Richmond Cedar Works, was paying a dollar a day
there.
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Gottlieb: Can you tell me what kind of product you were making, what kind
of job you had to do? Lee C.: I was working in sawmill. Sawing logs.
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Gottlieb: What-- What kind-- How is the work actually done at that time?
I'm sure it's a lot different from a sawmill today.
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Lee C.: So all of this-- all of this was the hand work.
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Gottlieb: Could you describe what you had to do there?
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Lee C.: Yeah, I just had to-- I had to pick up, you know, just like. Like
when they cut out, cut the ends of the logs and things off like that. I
take it off and put it in the truck.
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Gottlieb: You just throw those pieces onto the truck? Lee C.: Yeah.
Gottlieb: How-- was that-- That paid a whole lot more than hauling
groceries.
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Lee C.: Yeah, I was given a dollar a day, there. Gottlieb: Yeah.
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Gottlieb: Was there anybody there who helped you get that job? Helped you
find it? Lee C.: No.
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Lee C.: See, you go-- go-- go work at offer [??] there. And if you needed
about they hire you. They hire you. Wasn't-- whole lot different than it is
now.
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Gottlieb: Do you remember about how old you were when you started working
there?
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Lee C.: I was 16.
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Gottlieb: Were you still living with your parents at that time? Lee C.: I
was. Gottlieb: How long did you keep that job?
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Lee C.: Oh, was a big job _______[??] Probably about-- six months. You
know, just like you didn't like a job then, then you could go somewhere
else, you know? I got a job in the factory and I get $7.80 a week then.
Gottlieb: Uh huh. Lee C.: $7.80 a week.
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Gottlieb: What kind of factory?
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Lee C.: make cigars.
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Gottlieb: And what-- What kind of work did they make you do there?
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Lee C.: I fill machines. See they had bunches, put bunches in the block,
you see. And I fillin' machines. So I had the truck fillin' the machine
with it, and the white one would roll the cigars.
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Gottlieb: How long did you keep that job? Lee C.: Oh.
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Lee C.: Maybe about six months. I just go around to one. I didn't care
that much about working, nohow. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Lee C.: Yeah.
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Gottlieb: You still staying at home.
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Lee C.: Uh huh.
Gottlieb: Well, you can tell what I'm interested in. Could you tell me all
the other jobs you had in Richmond before you came up to, uh, Braddock?
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Lee C.: Yeah, I had job _______[??]. Workin', I was workin' on the sea
mill [??]. I was gettin' $6.80 a day there. That's money. Yeah. That's
during the war time. 1917. Again. I with my brother and my brother, he run
the clean and presser shop. He won the clean and presser shop from 1909 to
1923.
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Gottlieb: Well, I didn't quite understand what kind of shop you said he
had?
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Lee C.: Cleanin' and pressin'. Gottlieb: Cleanin' and pressin'. Lee C.:
See, at that time, you get a pair of pants cleaned for $0.50. The whole
suit clean for a dollar. I was a cleaner through that time. See, now we got
dirty, we scrub 'em. Clean, fresh, put 'em on the board and scrub 'em. It'd
be clean, that one time get all the dirt off. Gottlieb: Mhm. Lee C.: Yeah.
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Gottlieb: And after that? Lee C.: Hm? Gottlieb: And after that, you know?
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Lee C.: Oh after they put the railroad up I come up here. Gottlieb: Oh, I
see. Lee C.: Now have to do too much clothes [??]. Wartime, you know,
they're busy then, they're hire extra men's, you know, for breaking.
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Gottlieb: Now, you said you started working on a railroad about 1916 or
17.
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Lee C.: Yeah, 1916.
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Gottlieb: And you must have come up here in 1923.
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Lee C.: Yeah, was about 23, yeah.
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Gottlieb: Were you working on the railroad between 1916 and 1923? The
whole time? Lee C.: No, I wasn't. I don't know.
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Lee C.: You know, after the war was over, they let all the extra men go.
See I was just working that time, had no steady job on that. Just extra.
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Gottlieb: Is it at that time that you went to work with your brother? Lee
C.: Hm? Gottlieb: Is it at that time you went and worked with your brother?
Lee C.: Mhm. Gottlieb: And you stayed with him until-- Lee C.: Yeah.
Gottlieb: --til you came out?
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Lee C.: Yeah.
Gottlieb: Was this the brother that came up ahead of you? Lee C.: Yeah.
Gottlieb: It was. Tell me a little bit about how he decided to-- to leave
his business in Richmond and come up to Braddock.
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Lee C.: Well, it just like I said, for more money. So he come up here and
he got a job in the mill. Edgar Thomas Mill. Okay. And then after he come
up here, I come up here after him and he run a boarding house. Gottlieb: He
did? Lee C.: Yeah, he run a boardinghouse down on Washington Street.
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Gottlieb: Is that in Braddock? Lee C.: Yeah. Gottlieb: Um, did he have--
Did he sell his business in Richmond?
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Lee C.: Yeah, he sold. You know, at that time, you could buy a business
for $25 because it wasn't do nothing but use an iron, was no press machine.
Nothing like that, you know. He didn't have no pressin' machine, nothing
like that.
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Gottlieb: Did he have his own shop or did he just use his house?
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Lee C.: No, he had own shop.
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Gottlieb: Well, had somebody told him about Braddock and the Edgar
Thompson plant? Lee C.: Yeah.
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Lee C.: Knew some fellers up here, you know, come up here, you know, And
he come on up here and then he come up here and he played ball all the
time, you know, in Richmond. And a lot of fellows knowed him, you know, and
he come up here and he start playing ball up here.
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Gottlieb: Do you remember who these people who told him about Braddock
were? Lee C.: No, I don't know. I don't know. Gottlieb: He just-- He just
heard about it from some friends of his. Lee C.: Yeah.
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Lee C.: And then come on up here.
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Gottlieb: Had you ever heard about Braddock or Pittsburgh before that
time? Anybody talked to you about it?
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Lee C.: Oh, yeah. You see, now, I would. I would have been up here before
then, but I thought, you know, Braddock was a long way from Homestead, or
Duquesne. You see, I thought they way away from one another because I come,
I come up, on transportation. Gottlieb: You did? Lee C.: Come on. Yeah. I
could have got transportation and come to Homestead. Or Duquesne, can
caught the car and come over here. But I just knew-- I thought it was a
long way from there, I was waiting till they say we're going to come to
Braddock.
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Gottlieb: And so you did wait until it came?
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Lee C.: Yeah. Yeah.
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Gottlieb: Otherwise, you think you might have come up before your brother
did? Lee C.: No.
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Lee C.: No. Wasn't nothing like that before he come up here [??].
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Gottlieb: So it sounds to me then, like if your brother hadn't come up
here, you probably wouldn't have come up here. Lee C.: Definitely.
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Lee C.: Yeah, he workin', I wouldn't know.
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Gottlieb: Why not? Lee C.: Hm? Gottlieb: Were you not the adventurous
type? Weren't you the adventurous type of person who would have come up on
your own?
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Lee C.: No. You see, just like, you see, I didn't know nobody. Just like
you. You wouldn't want to go nowhere that you didn't know nobody yourself.
See? And he is up here. I know. I'd be all right when I get here. Gottlieb:
Yeah. Lee C.: Yeah.
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Gottlieb: Was he married at that time?
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Lee C.: No, he never married.
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Gottlieb: Were you? Lee C.: I'm married. Yeah, I'm married. Gottlieb: Were
you married when you came up here? Was your wife in Virginia?
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Lee C.: Yeah, my wife was in Virginia. Gottlieb: Oh, I see.
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Gottlieb: Tell me a little bit about how a man would get transportation.
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Lee C.: See at the employment office in Richmond on Broad Street, and you
go up there and they'll sign you up and tell you, you know, what it-- what
requirement is, you see. And tell you when Pittsburgh train goin' leave.
Say, three a day and all you had to be up there and it's cost you nothing.
You get something to eat and all.
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Gottlieb: All you had to do a show up at the train at the right time.
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Lee C.: That's right. Man had a list of your name.
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Gottlieb: Do you remember who the man was? Who took your name? Did you
ever know his name? Lee C.: No.
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Lee C.: I never know his name.
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Gottlieb: How many men went with you?
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Lee C.: Probably about-- probably about 50.
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Gottlieb: Were they all sitting in one car together? Did they have a
special car there?
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Lee C.: They did have special car. You called, how many you know was
going. You did need up here. You see that they would have-- if you had more
than one car to put an extra car on.
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Gottlieb: Excuse me a second.
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Gottlieb: Do you remember the trip up here from Richmond very well in the
train?
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Lee C.: I remember. You ever come up here. We left that night. Gottlieb:
At night? Lee C.: [unintelligible]--- Up around 8:00.
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Gottlieb: Did you stop over anywhere or did they bring you right on
straight through?
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Lee C.: It's conflicted. They had to put your car in, you know. Gottlieb:
Uh huh. Lee C.: We all __________[??]
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Gottlieb: You didn't have to change trains anywhere.
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Lee C.: No. Gottlieb: Yeah. Did it-- Lee C.: Well, think we changed half--
if we changed in Washington, you understand? Gottlieb: Yeah. Lee C.: We
changed trains in Washington. And the trains afterwards go all the way.
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Gottlieb: Did you come right into Braddock? Did-- Did the train come right
into Braddock, or did you have to get off in Pittsburgh and take a
street--
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Lee C.: [simultaneous talking] Oh, we got off in Braddock. You got off in
Braddock where you can go, was about half a block from where the guard is
taking. Look side taking [??] and walk around 'course down to the
employment office.
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Gottlieb: And then-- and tell me what happened after they let you off the
train, exactly. They took you right over to the employment office?
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Lee C.: No, they wouldn't go-- they didn't sign us up for the next
morning. We carried us to the place where you stay at, the bunkhouse,
called the bunkhouse, you know, we stay there and eat and all.
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Gottlieb: It was one place where everybody stayed.
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Lee C.: Yeah, it was a big bunkhouse. A great big place.
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Gottlieb: Were there other men staying there besides you or you--
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Lee C.: Oh, yeah, some of them stayed. Some of them didn't have work, I
stayed there til the next day. Til my brother found out I was there. And he
come down and got me. Brought me up to his boardinghouse.
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Gottlieb: You hadn't told them that you were coming?
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Lee C.: Yeah. He knew what I was coming, but he didn't know what-- What
time I'd be here. Gottlieb: Oh, I see.
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Gottlieb: And then what happened the the next morning?
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Lee C.: The next morning they carried us up there and they examined us. If
you pass examination, they give a job. Get a job. They signed you up and
pay you when they come, come and work.
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Gottlieb: Who decided what part of the mill you were going to work in? Lee
C.: Hm? Gottlieb: Who-- Who-- Who decided what part of the mill you were
going to work in?
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Lee C.: I didn't know what department. We decide that yourself. You know,
they like, you have so many men this, you know, so many men this. This--
this mill, maybe Number 2 mill, Number Three mill or coke house, blast
furnace.
00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:44.000
Gottlieb: What part of the mill did you get assigned to? Lee C.: Finishing
department. Gottlieb: Finishing?
00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:48.000
Lee C.: Yeah. They want my brother to go with me.
00:18:48.000 --> 00:18:53.000
Gottlieb: Hm. Was that just a coincidence, or did they put you together
because you were brothers?
00:18:53.000 --> 00:18:58.000
Lee C.: No, he didn't work on the same shift I worked on. Gottlieb: Oh.
Lee C.: He worked on another shift.
00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:00.000
Gottlieb: But you were in the same part of the mill.
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:03.000
Lee C.: The same part. Yeah.
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:09.000
Gottlieb: Uh, what kind of work were you doing in a finishing department?
00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:11.000
Lee C.: Oh, turn the radios.
00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:12.000
Gottlieb: Can you tell me how you did that?
00:19:12.000 --> 00:19:21.000
Lee C.: Yeah. See the wheel, take the wheel come out on. You seem to be
hot and had-- had-- had to make-- made something like a fork and you turn
it over.
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:24.000
Gottlieb: What was the purpose of doing that?
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:33.000
Lee C.: Well, people often-- people crooked. If it didn't turn them over,
go over just like that.
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:36.000
Gottlieb: And you used to do that your entire shift.
00:19:36.000 --> 00:19:39.000
Lee C.: Okay.
00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:56.000
Gottlieb: So was the company pretty much finished with you after you got
assigned to your department? Lee C.: Hm? Gottlieb: Did the company do
anything else with you after they assigned you to your department? Lee C.:
No. Gottlieb: They they took out from your pay the cost of the
transportation, didn't they?
00:19:56.000 --> 00:20:15.000
Lee C.: No, if you work, if you worked-- you know, I forget how many days
or 30 days or something like that. They pay for you, they pay for your
transportation. Gottlieb: They-- they would? Lee C.: But if you didn't
work, they take it out.
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:41.000
Gottlieb: Mm. How often did you used to get paid? Do you remember? Lee C.:
Every two weeks. Gottlieb: So if you worked, let's say less than two weeks,
you would they keep, they keep the cost of your transportation back. Lee
C.: Yeah. Gottlieb: But let's say if you work longer than four weeks or
something. Lee C.: Yeah. Gottlieb: They wouldn't take it out of your pay.
Lee C.: Mm. Gottlieb: What about if you were staying in that bunkhouse,
would they charge you for that? Lee C.: Oh, yeah.
00:20:41.000 --> 00:21:03.000
Lee C.: You would pay for people eating in the bunker. But I just feel
like I got there and like a day in the mall, I found my brother. He come
down and got me. Of course, the fellow, you know, was hated upon because he
knew my brother.
00:21:03.000 --> 00:21:11.000
Gottlieb: Um. Did you stay at that same job in the finishing department?
All the years that you worked at Edgar Thompson?
00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:37.000
Lee C.: Yeah. Well, see, I did. Well, see, I did. I like Number Three Mill
went down and I went to the pig iron. They made pig iron. They called it
pig Iron Machine. I worked over there. And then afterward I come back over
to number two, finish them for me. And I worked there the rest of the time
because I come over painting, I come over painting in 57.
00:21:37.000 --> 00:21:47.000
Gottlieb: In '57. About 34 years?
00:21:47.000 --> 00:21:50.000
Lee C.: I made foreman.
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:56.000
Gottlieb: What was the best of all those jobs you had? What was the best
job in the mill?
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:58.000
Lee C.: The best job was the finishing department.
00:21:58.000 --> 00:22:01.000
Gottlieb: The first one you had? The first one you had?
00:22:01.000 --> 00:22:13.000
Lee C.: No, the second one. See, I work at number three, finished mill.
And then as we went down, I went to the pig machine and then I come back to
the number two, finish the mill. And I worked at the-- the rest of the
time.
00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:17.000
Gottlieb: Was the work you had to do there different than the turning the
rails?
00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:18.000
Lee C.: That's what I did. Turn the rail.
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.000
Gottlieb: Did you do that number in-- in number two?
00:22:20.000 --> 00:22:21.000
Lee C.: Yeah, I done that.
00:22:21.000 --> 00:22:26.000
Gottlieb: Well, why was that better-- Better than number three?
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:31.000
Lee C.: Well, was better. Well, cause it was more easier.
00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:37.000
Gottlieb: Have. Have they mechanized the job by that time? Lee C.: Yeah.
00:22:37.000 --> 00:22:44.000
Lee C.: Now that the number two mill and the chain roller coming up, lay
down go to sleep.
00:22:44.000 --> 00:22:49.000
Gottlieb: You hadn't been able to do that in the number three department?
Lee C.: No.
00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:51.000
Lee C.: I would eat everything [??].
00:22:51.000 --> 00:22:56.000
Gottlieb: What was working with the-- with the pig iron machine like?
00:22:56.000 --> 00:23:23.000
Lee C.: Yeah, that's tough. Hot. But hot like runnin' iron you see. Just
like water. You shall see one? Like water in now. And sometimes you hit a
spout. The iron run in before the run in-- in the ladle. And you keep
that-- keep that spout open so the irons when they had wooden poles.
00:23:23.000 --> 00:23:33.000
Gottlieb: Do you remember about what year the number three mill went down
and you got transferred?
00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:50.000
Lee C.: No. So you see, we-- we did get like the mill go down or something
or other and you have your purpose. What job you want to take, you know, if
they want them in there, you don't, don't, don't just, say, transfer you
there. Gottlieb: Yeah. Lee C.: Just place you there.
00:23:50.000 --> 00:24:09.000
Gottlieb: Was it a long, long time after you came up here? That number
three mill went down or was it just a few years? Lee C.: Oh, long time. I
was there long time. Gottlieb: So you had that job of turning rails for
many years? Uh huh. Did it satisfy you, that kind of work?
00:24:09.000 --> 00:24:17.000
Lee C.: Oh, liked it. You must think I tell you, I take my hand down. I
won't get more tired when I come home. I ain't done nothing. That's the
truth.
00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:22.000
Gottlieb: Huh. Didn't it take a lot of strength to turn those rails?
00:24:22.000 --> 00:24:24.000
Lee C.: If you didn't know how to do it.
00:24:24.000 --> 00:24:27.000
Gottlieb: What was the-- What was the knack of doing it right?
00:24:27.000 --> 00:24:46.000
Lee C.: Well, you've got to have a place. See, we had. We had like that
55. I ain't tellin you, I stand up just like you said, and put them up just
like holding four more. And some of them turn them that way down. And
sometimes wheel keep all the wheel over. Yeah, I was the best one turn them
rails.
00:24:46.000 --> 00:24:52.000
Gottlieb: So. So the secret was to put as little motion into it as you
could?
00:24:52.000 --> 00:25:02.000
Lee C.: That's right, that's right. Like, you know, like everything.
Because some jobs, you see, some people do you, they want to hire you to do
that. Just. You just sit down. Gottlieb: Uh huh.
00:25:02.000 --> 00:25:06.000
Gottlieb: Did-- did somebody show you how when you first started working
how to do it right?
00:25:06.000 --> 00:25:13.000
Lee C.: He told me how, guy told me how, showed me how to do it. And then
afterwards, I did better than he did. That's right.
00:25:13.000 --> 00:25:22.000
Gottlieb: Were these all Black men who were working at that part of the
mill? Lee C.: Hm? Gottlieb: Were these all Black men who were working at
that part of the mill? Lee C.: No.
00:25:22.000 --> 00:25:38.000
Lee C.: No, see the fellas, white fellas, foreman on the ____[??] On the
road was, we're going put them on there and put them in the cars and we--
the one-- one-- the one-- the one fellow, he was a Spanish. He was working
with us.
00:25:38.000 --> 00:25:43.000
Gottlieb: But-- but they were the only ones that weren't Black. Lee C.:
Mhm. Gottlieb: So they were mostly--
00:25:43.000 --> 00:25:57.000
Lee C.: My-- on my turns. On my turns. There's three turns. So you had
three turners on each each turn. And to many degrees, the hotbed.
00:25:57.000 --> 00:26:01.000
Gottlieb: Which turn was it that you worked on? Lee C.: Hm? Gottlieb:
Which turn was it?
00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:10.000
Lee C.: Oh, I worked on all of them. Gottlieb: You did? Lee C.: Yeah. We
turned around. We moved it. One more. Famously [??], he left and came.
00:26:10.000 --> 00:26:16.000
Gottlieb: Who was the man who taught you how to turn the rails?
00:26:16.000 --> 00:26:22.000
Lee C.: Another colored fellow. I don't know. I don't know his name. I do
that better than he did.
00:26:22.000 --> 00:26:34.000
Gottlieb: Huh. You never became friends with him? Lee C.: Hm? Gottlieb:
You never became good friends with him? Lee C.: Oh, yeah. Good friends.
Gottlieb: Was he staying at the-- At your brother's boarding house? Lee C.:
No.
00:26:34.000 --> 00:26:41.000
Lee C.: Don't know where he stay.
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:47.000
Gottlieb: Did you have to work at that-- in the pig iron department very
long, or was that just a short time?
00:26:47.000 --> 00:26:48.000
Lee C.: Just a short time.
00:26:48.000 --> 00:27:01.000
Gottlieb: And then they-- And then you asked to get the other job? Lee C.:
Yeah, right. Gottlieb: How was it different working in the number two
department from from working in number three department? You told me that
it had become mechanized.
00:27:01.000 --> 00:27:08.000
Lee C.: Yeah. Well, I didn't. I just tell you we had better-- do better,
right? We had more spare energy then.
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:12.000
Gottlieb: They had a machine that would turn the rails over.
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:19.000
Lee C.: I don't know what you had. We had the ring.
00:27:19.000 --> 00:27:29.000
Gottlieb: But didn't you tell me that in the in the number two mill that
they had by that time mechanized that job partly?
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:30.000
Lee C.: What do you mean by mechanized?
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:37.000
Gottlieb: I mean, they had a machine that would do part of the work that
the men used to do when you were working in number three department.
00:27:37.000 --> 00:27:46.000
Lee C.: Yeah. You see them little reels just like this, there were 25. You
had to run them through a machine. You had to take them out.
00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:47.000
Gottlieb: And you hadn't had that number three mill.
00:27:47.000 --> 00:28:02.000
Lee C.: No. No, they had that number two mill. No. See, the men
straightened them by hand.
00:28:02.000 --> 00:28:09.000
Gottlieb: Were you-- why I asked-- You, you were always happy with the
jobs that you had at Edgar Thompson.
00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:10.000
Lee C.: Oh, yeah.
00:28:10.000 --> 00:28:15.000
Gottlieb: You figure you were doing better up here than you could have
done in Richmond?
00:28:15.000 --> 00:28:23.000
Lee C.: Yeah, I come up here on account there was more money. That's
reason. That's better. Yeah. Yeah.
00:28:23.000 --> 00:28:32.000
Gottlieb: Was that the only thing that kept you up here? If you had been
able to earn as much money in Richmond as you could, as you could have
earned at Edgar Thompson, would you have gone back?
00:28:32.000 --> 00:28:44.000
Lee C.: Yeah, I would. I would never come up here. No, I would never come
up here. You go back, continue on working on the railroad. I was-- I would
have stayed with that because I make more on the railroad there than I did
when I come up here.
00:28:44.000 --> 00:28:46.000
Gottlieb: You were making more on the railroad than you were at Edgar
Thompson?
00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:49.000
Lee C.: Yeah. I was making $6.80 for 8 hours.
00:28:49.000 --> 00:28:51.000
Gottlieb: How much were you making at Edgar Thompson when you first came
up?
00:28:51.000 --> 00:28:55.000
Lee C.: When I first come up, $3.06. Gottlieb: A day. Lee C.: Yeah.
00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:59.000
Gottlieb: That's a big difference. Lee C.: Yeah.
00:28:59.000 --> 00:29:07.000
Lee C.: Yeah, I stayed _____[??] that.
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:15.000
Gottlieb: How did the-- how did the foremen and the pushers used to treat
Black men at Edgar Thompson?
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:20.000
Lee C.: We treat all the same. We treat all the same.
00:29:20.000 --> 00:29:22.000
Gottlieb: You didn't know. You didn't-- didn't notice any difference?
00:29:22.000 --> 00:29:49.000
Lee C.: No, of course like here. Like you did, like that. He couldn't talk
to you just like a dog or something, cause you jump on him. So the
superintendent didn't like that. You got to treat them all the same. You
know, we're talking about corn, you platinum, you know, nigger ______
nigger [??]. Guys eat him up, I tell ya.
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:51.000
Gottlieb: Did you ever see it happen?
00:29:51.000 --> 00:30:05.000
Lee C.: No, never happened. I thought they didn't have it. Like, if you do
that and you tell the superintendent, the superintendent let you out and I
would discharge you for that. So then. That way.
00:30:05.000 --> 00:30:17.000
Gottlieb: Were there certain parts of the mill that only Black men worked
in and other parts of the mill that maybe only Spanish men worked in or
something like that?
00:30:17.000 --> 00:30:41.000
Lee C.: No. All-- all older. Some colored. Had some colored working in
there. Yeah. You know, like the old coloreds. They had the-- first help or
something help 'em. They got all those white. But the colored man here to
help. Yeah, up there. He got to get up. What happen.
00:30:41.000 --> 00:30:44.000
Gottlieb: What was the best job in your department?
00:30:44.000 --> 00:30:49.000
Lee C.: I tell you, I just tell you, the finishing job. I mean, the roll
department. Was the best place I ever worked in there.
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:56.000
Gottlieb: But what in that department, what was the best job a person
could get?
00:30:56.000 --> 00:31:02.000
Lee C.: A better job, but still wasn't-- so colored folk couldn't get
there.
00:31:02.000 --> 00:31:07.000
Gottlieb: The-- the-- The colored people usually had less skilled work?
00:31:07.000 --> 00:31:26.000
Lee C.: That's right. Just like pulling the wheels up and all I get, you
know. And the superintendent put me in the car. He had worked in them but
now, you take it now, the colored doing same thing, they're doing same
thing all the bills, because colored foreman and all.
00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:48.000
Gottlieb: Were there any colored foreman when you were working there? Lee
C.: No. Gottlieb: They were all white? Were there any foreign born foremen?
Were they all native American men? Lee C.: Victor [??]. Gottlieb: They had
both kinds.
00:31:48.000 --> 00:32:04.000
Lee C.: We're not doing in there now and working in this work years ago.
Workin' a job now. If you pay to do it. I'm colored man, I tell you I can
do it. I get it.
00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:06.000
Gottlieb: But it wasn't like that then.
00:32:06.000 --> 00:32:07.000
Lee C.: No, never. Nothing or no one.
00:32:07.000 --> 00:32:12.000
Gottlieb: Was there ever a job you wanted to get that you couldn't on
account of being colored?
00:32:12.000 --> 00:32:17.000
Lee C.: Yeah. When I first come up here. Yeah.
00:32:17.000 --> 00:32:27.000
Gottlieb: Did you ever have an experience with that yourself, though? Was
there ever a job that you tried to get yourself and they didn't let you
have it because you were colored? Lee C.: No.
00:32:27.000 --> 00:32:34.000
Lee C.: No. All of them spent, was a job. I tell a lot of them work that's
been through, but they couldn't get it.
00:32:34.000 --> 00:32:41.000
Gottlieb: Did you ever want to leave the mill and try and find any other
kind of work? Lee C.: No.
00:32:41.000 --> 00:32:49.000
Lee C.: No. I was satisfied right there, what I was doing. I work there 23
years and six months on the same job.
00:32:49.000 --> 00:32:53.000
Gottlieb: How old were you when you when you came up in 1923?
00:32:53.000 --> 00:33:03.000
Lee C.: 26. I was 26, I think. Gottlieb: Uh huh.
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:10.000
Gottlieb: What happened to you in the, uh, Depression? Did you get-- Did
you get laid off?
00:33:10.000 --> 00:33:16.000
Lee C.: No. I'd make one and two days a week. One and two days a week.
00:33:16.000 --> 00:33:21.000
Gottlieb: How did you used to know which days to go down to the mill to
work?
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:45.000
Lee C.: Oh, just like-- just like-- I'd report 12 to 8 this week. I mean
seven day. I mean eight to 2 to 12 or something like that. And I know, I
know my schedule when I go out when my time for to go see that's like I was
off this week next week maybe I go to 12 day I know when I was supposed to
go. Gottlieb: Uh huh, yeah but--
00:33:45.000 --> 00:33:52.000
Gottlieb: But if you were only working a couple of days every pay, how did
you know which day you were supposed to work?
00:33:52.000 --> 00:34:07.000
Lee C.: You see, like, when you're working like that, we go to different
places in the-- In the mill. And they maybe didn't need a man. See, they
send us over there not us job weren't going on toll.
00:34:07.000 --> 00:34:10.000
Gottlieb: So every day you had to go down and see was there any work.
00:34:10.000 --> 00:34:17.000
Lee C.: Yeah-- yeah you know that if I want to work, if I didn't want to
work, I wasn't going.
00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:27.000
Gottlieb: Did you ever try to find a job outside the mill during those
years? Lee C.: No.
00:34:27.000 --> 00:34:30.000
Lee C.: No 'cause I could make it.
00:34:30.000 --> 00:34:35.000
Gottlieb: Um. What did you use to do on the days when you didn't work?
00:34:35.000 --> 00:34:43.000
Lee C.: Oh, just sit around, play cards with them, I guess. Was ball
game.
00:34:43.000 --> 00:35:00.000
Gottlieb: Guess there are a lot of other men in your situation. Was there
one part of Braddock, when you first came up here in 1923, Was there one
part of Braddock that the colored people lived in, or were they pretty
mixed up with the--?
00:35:00.000 --> 00:35:14.000
Lee C.: They're pretty mixed up. There's something. You know, there's
something like maybe 3 or 4 blocks was nothing but white living in there.
See the colored didn't live in there. He'd live in other places.
00:35:14.000 --> 00:35:39.000
Gottlieb: How long did you stay at your brother's boarding house? Lee C.:
I like it to be ten years. Gottlieb: And you said you were married at the
time you came up here in 1923. Did your wife come up with you? Did you
bring your wife up? Lee C.: Mhm. Gottlieb: And you the two of you stayed
together with your brother?
00:35:39.000 --> 00:35:42.000
Lee C.: Yeah. Yeah.
00:35:42.000 --> 00:35:48.000
Gottlieb: How many other men were staying there?
00:35:48.000 --> 00:35:54.000
Lee C.: I wouldn't know, about. 15. 15. Gottlieb: God. Lee C.: Eleven
rooms, one house.
00:35:54.000 --> 00:36:02.000
Gottlieb: 11 rooms? How did-- how did he get such a big house? Did he--
was he pretty wealthy? Your brother?
00:36:02.000 --> 00:36:06.000
Lee C.: No, see, rent, wasn't so high then. He rent.
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:07.000
Gottlieb: He rented that house?
00:36:07.000 --> 00:36:12.000
Lee C.: $75 a month. Every month.
00:36:12.000 --> 00:36:15.000
Gottlieb: Was he able to make a lot of money by taking in boarders?
00:36:15.000 --> 00:36:22.000
Lee C.: Yeah, he made pretty good.
00:36:22.000 --> 00:36:32.000
Gottlieb: Well, the thing I'm thinking about is that in 1923, uh, it must
have been an awful lot of, it must have been a lot of people coming up here
from the South.
00:36:32.000 --> 00:36:36.000
Lee C.: Oh, good. Things was booming that time.
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:50.000
Gottlieb: And it must have been a real shortage of housing for places for
all those people. And it's-- I just-- it's surprising for me to think that
your brother could have just come right up here and and rented that house
just like that without any trouble.
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:53.000
Lee C.: Yeah.
Gottlieb: Do you know how he-- How he was able to find it?
00:36:53.000 --> 00:37:00.000
Lee C.: Yeah. The fella what owned the building. He run the bar on the
corner. See and my brother know him, see.
00:37:00.000 --> 00:37:02.000
Gottlieb: Did he know him in Virginia?
00:37:02.000 --> 00:37:13.000
Lee C.: No, he knew him after he could come up here, you know. You know,
just like-- Like you-- Like you-- Like I know you and you know me. You
could recommend it to. 'Cause I was alright. Gottlieb: Yeah.
00:37:13.000 --> 00:37:19.000
Gottlieb: How long had your brother been up here before you came? Do you
know?
00:37:19.000 --> 00:37:22.000
Lee C.: Maybe five years.
00:37:22.000 --> 00:37:44.000
Gottlieb: Oh, he he. He came up here more like 1918, 1917? Lee C.: Yeah.
Gottlieb: Was this friend of his who had the bar? Was he a colored man,
too? Lee C.: No. Gottlieb: Did your brother keep his job at Edgar Thomson
the whole time that he lived in Braddock? Lee C.: Yeah.
00:37:44.000 --> 00:38:03.000
Lee C.: You see, way that time. We were working like that, you know. We
had a baseball team 'fore he could come. Gottlieb: Uh huh. Lee C.: And then
every day. He'd get off and go play ball. He had been throwing at a ball.
Gottlieb: Yeah. Yeah. Lee C.: People don't do that now. Won't let you do
that not.
00:38:03.000 --> 00:38:06.000
Gottlieb: This was like regular baseball, it wasn't softball?
00:38:06.000 --> 00:38:08.000
Lee C.: Yeah, regular baseball.
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:11.000
Gottlieb: Baseball. Who-- Who did they used to play?
00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:20.000
Lee C.: They play Homestead. Duquesne. Pitt good. Chatham and all around
that place.
00:38:20.000 --> 00:38:24.000
Gottlieb: Were these teams just for colored men or?
00:38:24.000 --> 00:38:25.000
Lee C.: All colored.
00:38:25.000 --> 00:38:34.000
Gottlieb: All colored? Lee C.: Yeah. Gottlieb: Was there somebody who the
mill had hired to organize this baseball team into--
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:36.000
Lee C.: Yeah. Yeah.
00:38:36.000 --> 00:38:42.000
Gottlieb: Do you remember what his name was?
00:38:42.000 --> 00:39:01.000
Lee C.: No. I'm going to go over here and. I can't go over there. I think
all-- I can call [??].
00:39:01.000 --> 00:39:04.000
Gottlieb: Did you know him very well? Did you know this man?
00:39:04.000 --> 00:39:11.000
Lee C.: Yeah. He had a job in the mill. He worked-- He worked in the big
office. Everything.
00:39:11.000 --> 00:39:15.000
Gottlieb: Did he have any other kind of job besides that? This man?
00:39:15.000 --> 00:39:18.000
Lee C.: Yeah, he had. He had a great little office in there.
00:39:18.000 --> 00:39:26.000
Gottlieb: But what were his responsibilities? Do you know? I mean, what
was he supposed to do exactly?
00:39:26.000 --> 00:39:38.000
Lee C.: I think he-- I think he for the-- for the colored folks. Like you
want jobs in there there? You went and see him. I can't call his name. I
see him one day.
00:39:38.000 --> 00:39:42.000
Gottlieb: I think I've heard it mentioned before, but I can't remember it
myself now.
00:39:42.000 --> 00:39:48.000
Lee C.: Yeah.
Gottlieb: I know that there was a person who had a similar position in
Homestead, and his name was Grover Nelson.
00:39:48.000 --> 00:40:00.000
Lee C.: No, this fella, I can't call his name now to save my life.
Couldn't think of it. Been so long.
00:40:00.000 --> 00:40:16.000
Gottlieb: And did you ever have any need to talk to him about anything?
Lee C.: No. Gottlieb: Do you know of people who he did help out and what he
did for them?
00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:27.000
Lee C.: You know, at that time, if they-- if you tend to your own business
and do your job and you have no trouble, you don't have no trouble.
00:40:27.000 --> 00:40:34.000
Gottlieb: Would this-- would this man be the kind of person who would--
who you would go to if you did have trouble with a foreman?
00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:46.000
Lee C.: No. He could give me a name. Someone that you go to see. I can't
call him. I really don't know.
00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:53.000
Gottlieb: Can you tell me the places that you have lived since you left
your brother's boarding house?
00:40:53.000 --> 00:41:02.000
Lee C.: I ain't everybody-- I never moved Braddock. Gottlieb: Pardon me?
Lee C.: I never moved Braddock. I've been living in there all that time. I
ain't been over in Braddock?
00:41:02.000 --> 00:41:08.000
Gottlieb: What are the different addresses, though, that you lived at in
Braddock?
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:33.000
Lee C.: I lived, I think, I live over 3 or 4 places. Gottlieb: Oh yeah?
Lee C.: I think it was over 28, 80, lived 28 Willow Way. I can't think of
anything __________[??] The one place I lived.
00:41:33.000 --> 00:41:41.000
Gottlieb: How many children did you have? Lee C.: Four. Gottlieb: Four
children. Were all. Were they all born up in here in Pennsylvania?
00:41:41.000 --> 00:41:44.000
Lee C.: All 'cept one.
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:57.000
Gottlieb: So you had one child when-- When you moved up here? How long was
it between the time that you came up to Braddock and the time that you that
your wife came up?
00:41:57.000 --> 00:42:03.000
Lee C.: Well, she came up with me. Would be about a year later.
00:42:03.000 --> 00:42:20.000
Gottlieb: Did you go down and visit them during the time you were here?
And they were in Richmond? Once-- Once you were living up here with your
family. Did you use to go back to Virginia at all?
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:28.000
Lee C.: No, I didn't go back.
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:39.000
Gottlieb: And did your relatives used to come up here to see you? Lee C.:
Yeah.
00:42:39.000 --> 00:42:45.000
Lee C.: He and my mother, my mother and my brother just-- that's all I
had.
00:42:45.000 --> 00:42:52.000
Gottlieb: Oh, your father. Your father passed by that time.
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:56.000
Lee C.: Yeah, he dead. '58. [??]
00:42:56.000 --> 00:42:59.000
Gottlieb: He died about the time that you left Richmond to come up here?
Lee C.: Well, he
00:42:59.000 --> 00:43:21.000
Lee C.: died. He died when I had come up here. You know, I tell you, work
at the mill and I tell you, was preacher, you asked me, could you make a
living doing that? You know, he work at the mill. Go down _______[??].
00:43:21.000 --> 00:43:36.000
Gottlieb: When you-- when you came up here, did you ever notice any
difference between colored people who had come up from the South and
colored people who had been born in Pennsylvania and raised in
Pennsylvania?
00:43:36.000 --> 00:43:50.000
Lee C.: No, I don't see no difference. All were the same.
00:43:50.000 --> 00:43:58.000
Gottlieb: So of all your brothers and sisters, this brother who owned the
boarding house and you were the only one who who came up to Pennsylvania.
Lee C.: Yeah. Gottlieb: The rest--
00:43:58.000 --> 00:44:00.000
Lee C.: Of my family? Yeah.
00:44:00.000 --> 00:44:13.000
Gottlieb: The rest of them stayed in Virginia? Lee C.: Yeah. Gottlieb: Did
they-- Did they all stay in Richmond or did they live in different places?
What did you think of Braddock?
00:44:13.000 --> 00:44:31.000
Lee C.: I think it's all right. Yeah. You know, like, if you go a place
and you try to treat other people right, be bound to treat. You don't treat
it right, why bother, I never been arrested in my life.
00:44:31.000 --> 00:44:42.000
Gottlieb: How did it compare as a city? I mean, as a place to live with
Richmond? Was it better or worse? Lee C.: Going up here? Gottlieb: Yeah.
00:44:42.000 --> 00:45:01.000
Lee C.: Oh, like. Like. Like you know how to treat everybody the same
people up here. People just way to be down there. Nobody can say nothing in
the world about me. 'Cause I try treat everybody right. White and colored.
00:45:01.000 --> 00:45:11.000
Gottlieb: Well, you know, they used to talk about, you know, how rough
mill towns were. You know, how dirty. How polluted. Did that did ever
bother you? Lee C.: No.
00:45:11.000 --> 00:46:11.000
Lee C.: No. People talkin' bout pollution now. When I first come up here,
sure, your street would have dirt 'bout quarter inch thick on it. You
better not park your car on by it, by the mill, it'd be covered up and get
rained on. Yeah. You know, mine. And some of them. Some of them white
fellas workin there. Coal smoke and thing, I guess. And they come out.
They'd be covered up in all that dust. We just wash up. Yeah. He just wash
up when he was at home. He'd be so glad, you know, the time for him to go
home. It is hell.
