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Peter Gottlieb: How did you find out about places to stay when you were
looking for a room or you were looking for maybe a lodging house or
something like that? How did you find out where people had rooms for rent.
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Charner C.: Well you see I almost-- when I first came here. I join, I'd
joined a lodge and it was called the Oddfellows. And you get a sign. They
give you a sign, and you go to the tavern anywhere, or go to a different
place or a town where you don't know nobody and you throw your sign out and
you see somebody there that they know what you're talking about and they
come to you, talk to you. Gottlieb: So did you go to the Oddfellows Hall
when you came to Homestead? Is that where you-- Charner C.: No, I came
here. And I was down the street. A man came by. He thought I was stranger,
but he said-- [unintelligible]. He spoke to me and I spoke to him. I gave
him a sign and he signed me back and he said, Where are you, where are you
from? and I told him and I told him I wanted a place to stay. And he told
me where to go and even went with me. Gottlieb: Had you joined the
Oddfellows in Detroit? Charner C.: Mhm.
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Gottlieb: You hadn't belonged to them in South Carolina?
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Charner C.: No.
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Gottlieb: Were the men in this boarding house at Mrs. Brown's-- were they
all people from the South who had come up here like you had?
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Charner C.: I wouldn't. I wouldn't. I couldn't know, just-- but I don't
think, but I think there's some from everywhere. Well, I really believe. I
never did ask for that, but I'd really believe it was from everywhere
almost.
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Gottlieb: So they weren't all from South Carolina?
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Charner C.: No, I don't think they were. I'm not.
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Gottlieb: You didn't get to know those people?
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Charner C.: Well, yeah, but I know them very well. But we didn't ask, I
didn't ask them nothing about where they-- didn't get a chance to ask all
of them why they from or nothing like that, you know, because-- see, they
go-- some go, you see them once or twice and they all work different
shifts, you know. Like they, they work for a 12, 12 days and all got
different shifts and some going and some going. Some coming and some going
all the time. You hardly ever get to-- and when they change-- the week
change come, some of them they going to, you know, maybe the church or
going to, you know, have the business thing like you don't see them often
and next time it's work time and they won't like, like that. You didn't get
a chance to. And when vacation time and when they off are going to have a
day off that way, they practically most of them going to do something, you
know, have some, some business or some time you didn't get a chance to--
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Gottlieb: The only thing they ever did there was sleep, huh?
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Charner C.: Right. Right. You didn't have too much time for nothing else.
But some of them take meal and and some-- I eat in the restaurant most of
the time. Until I got me a room for myself.
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Gottlieb: And did you have-- did you have one restaurant that you went to
most of the time.
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Charner C.: On Dixon Street. Right. Most of the time, yeah. It wasn't too
far from where I was rooming at. You could room or go to a restaurant and
eat and things like that if you wanted to. You take meals there from wrap
lunches and go to work and all. And quite a few of us went to restaurant
and eat that way, you know.
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Gottlieb: Why did you move from the, uh, boarding house to get your own
room?
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Charner C.: Well it's better. Yeah, better have-- better.
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Gottlieb: There were things you didn't like about the boarding house?
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Charner C.: Yes. You see in a boarding house that way-- when you, when you
have a room it's-- room like-- now they put two in the room together. But
when you have a room of your own, that's that's you and your key, you know.
You and your key, you see, that's you. And you might have one this week or
this month. It's all right. And the next, next month you might get one
cussing and swearing and everything. Like, you see what I mean, right.
That's right. Gottlieb: Where did you--
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Gottlieb: Where did you find the room after you left the boarding house?
Do you remember?
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Charner C.: Dave Moore. Man named Dave Moore.
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Gottlieb: That's the place you brought your wife.
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Charner C.: Right. Right. Right.
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Gottlieb: With Dave Moore from South Carolina?
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Charner C.: I don't-- I think he's from North Carolina. I don't-- I think.
Right, I think he's from North Carolina. Gottlieb: Did-- Charner C.: North
Carolina. I'm almost sure he's from North Carolina because a man from down
at-- he comes up here every July now and he, he passed off way ahead of me.
And he had some relationship come to our church. His Grandchildren and
things come to our church. And he comes up here and I have a son by the
name of Dave Moore. Dave Moore is his name. He he stayed here a long while
after him, but he went back his, his three sisters and things down and one
brother down and it's North Carolina down there. I think it's near-- I
believe it's near [??] but it's somewhere in North Carolina because that's
where-- and that's where Dave Moore came from. Yeah he, he know them where
he left.
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Gottlieb: Did, uh, did Dave Moore have his family live in the area or did
they just have other--
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Charner C.: Right. He had his wife.
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Gottlieb: Were you the only other roomate? Charner C.: I was the only
other roomate.
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Charner C.: He didn't have any children he just had a wife.
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Gottlieb: Was Peach way down-- was that a Black section of town? All black
people living down there? Or was it, was it a mixed neighborhood?
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Charner C.: It was mixed. But there's more, more Blacks. But you see what
you call them. Foreigners, too. Not, not as many.
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Gottlieb: Were there any Native American White people living down there?
That you remember?
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Charner C.: What is that?
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Gottlieb: Was there any White Americans living down there.
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Charner C.: You might have seen 1 or 2, maybe. Not too many. Most of them
was foreigners.
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Gottlieb: When you were living up in Homestead, maybe, you know, shortly
after you arrived here, did you ever notice any difference between black
people who were born in the North and those people like yourself who were
coming up from the South?
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Charner C.: What did you say? Now, let me see what you said.
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Gottlieb: Uh, did you ever notice any difference between the Black, Black
people that you got to know up here in Homestead who had been born and
raised up here, and those people who were born and raised in the South like
yourself? Do you ever notice any difference between you?
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Charner C.: Uh huh. Yeah.
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Gottlieb: Could you describe them?
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Charner C.: Well, the average up here were born up here. He-- you would
think. You seem to think if you could get a conversation with them, having
any dealing with them, that seems somewhat a little more advanced, a little
ahead of you or some kind of way in the way of speaking in a way. Right.
Right.
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Gottlieb: Why? Why? Why do you imagine they thought that?
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Charner C.: I don't know. But in conversation and in a way in actions, you
know, action and in conversation effect. Right.
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Gottlieb: Uh, so you felt that sometimes these northern born Black people
were looking down on on the people who were coming from the South? Charner
C.: Right. Did you ever hear the term Geechee used?
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Charner C.: I heard that. Yeah, I heard that too. But I don't know too
much about it, though. In my-- where-- the place in the South where I came
from, we never heard the word Geechee until I got up in here. No, I never
heard it down.
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Gottlieb: I was talking to Reverend Turner and I was telling him what I
was doing, and he said that he told me about that term and he said it was
supposed to be people who-- people from South Carolina, you know, country
people come up and they-- people make fun of them, say they eat catfish
heads and things like that.
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Charner C.: Well, that is from some part of the South. It is. They they
supposed to be come from the South. All right. Some parts, some parts. See,
the South-- all part of the South is not the same. No, no, no, no. I can
tell you that right now. No.
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Gottlieb: What, what, what are the differences between some parts?
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Charner C.: Well. Almost just like anything else. From what I can learn,
tell-- you see some of, some of, some of them talk different. You take.
Most people over in the east side of the South. That's where they say most
of these Geechee people from. Over that section. And the people that mostly
is not Geechee is from the South. Why you call back in the West like that's
Alabama, like in Birmingham and back in those places like. Yeah. And on the
line where I came, I came from right below Spartanburg. You heard talking
Spartanburg, South Carolina. That's where I was born just right below
Spartanburg that not far, as far down as Alabama, Birmingham and back and
that's not far down is that.
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Gottlieb: And so people from different parts of the South speak
differently.
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Charner C.: Oh yeah.
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Gottlieb: Did you join a church in Homestead. Just, just after you got
here?
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Charner C.: Um, not. Not for a while. Not for a while. I settle. I got
settled before I ever joined the church, and I joined the same church I'm
in now. But it was down where the old mill is now. That's where it was
located in.
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Gottlieb: Why did you join that particular church? There were other Black
churches in Homestead.
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Charner C.: Well, I got working with a, a man, young man, in fact from
Mississippi. His brothers-- got two three brothers in the same church I'm
in now. And by the name of Azariah Robson, was his name. And we was working
together. And he says to me, he said, Why don't you-- you, you go to
church? I said, Oh, yeah, I go to church sometime. I went all the time, so
why don't you come round to our Sunday school? And that's where-- that was
before I married, you see? And then I got to go on that. Liked the Sunday
school all right and the church. The way they'd do the talk good and
everything. So I joined it. St that particular time it was very good.
Pretty good. Pleasant that time. Oh, so much different than Detroit and
here at that time. That's night and day. Right. You know, you never see
nobody in Detroit like that. Tell you got to come into church and nothing
like that. Right in this 140 piling gang. This this fella was working. And
myself, we was working together, you see. And so he tell me about where he
was to going to church at. And I got a chance to go. Get up in the morning
and go out there and went there, and joined the foreign [??] man. That's
how I got started.
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Gottlieb: You hadn't ever gone, gone to to a church before that time.
Before he invited you to come to Second Baptist.
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Charner C.: No, I hadn't. I hadn't gone to a church before. I heard them,
but I hadn't went to-- hadn't went to any of them. I heard of them but--
and then to his-- it was closer. His church was closer to where I was
rooming and everything. It was closer down there. Yeah. Closer.
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Gottlieb: Um, You had been brought up as a methodist. Is that [Charner C.:
Right] what you told me. Charner C.: Right. Gottlieb: And you joined the
Baptist church. Did you, did you have any feelings about doing that in
terms of--
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Charner C.: Well, I'll tell you why I did that. My, my wife was a Baptist.
That's why I went to the Baptist church. See. Why I went to Baptist.
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Gottlieb: But you weren't living up here then when you first started
going.
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Charner C.: No, no, no, no. When I first started going-- when I first
started going to church, I went to-- my whole family went so I didn't care
to me, you know? Down home. That was down home.
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Gottlieb: But I mean when you first started going to Second Baptist Church
here, your, your wife wasn't living with you at that time, was she?
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Charner C.: No, she wasn't. She wasn't here then at that, at that time,
no. But this fella, as I told you in the piling gang, was met. That's why
he went. And he invited me to come down. You see that's why. That's why.
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Gottlieb: Did you like the guy? Did you like this fellow? Charner C.: Oh,
yeah.
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Charner C.: I liked him. I liked the church too and everything. Everything
was just like he says. That's right. Good.
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Gottlieb: How did, how did it compare with the, with the church you had
been brought up with down in the South?
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Charner C.: Well. It's a little bit different there. You see, you'd have
more and you see more people here and there's more to come-- be involved
in, you know, and everything. Like it was in the South. They had a young
men bible class and everything-- different. You know, and everything like
that.
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Gottlieb: Did they have more clubs than your church in the South had?
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Charner C.: Not too many. No, not too many. Just one stay thing, like, you
know, just one year in the same thing. Like it wasn't like now like. At
that particular time, but now-- it isn't too much different now at this age
and time. But that's been all 50 years ago. What I'm talking about now,
when I was down there, you see, things are different. Now, when I went back
to South Carolina here last September, last September-- pass was a year
ago, going on two years ago now, I was down to see Spartanburg and see my
cousin. I think I told you about it before. You hear before? Well. You
couldn't 50 years ago. I don't think a colored person you could. I don't
think a colored person was allowed in that White folk church. Now, I went
to the White folk church that Sunday I was down there. Right. And, and I
met with my cousin going to the market, to the store. Two Black supermarket
boss, like myself. They told me they was boss, you know. But you couldn't
seen it. 50 years ago you couldn't even talk like nothing like that. You
understand what I mean? What I mean, you're calling White-- everybody come
to them and buy from them. You know what I mean? Right. Yeah, sure. And
they was running, they was running, both running, running the shop. Sure.
That's what my people tell me they was now. Two of them. I met two. Right.
50 years ago. You couldn't-- nothing like that happened. You couldn't be
that. No, that would be a miracle down there.
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Gottlieb: I've heard some people say now that South is a better place for
Black people now than the North.
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Charner C.: It might be in places I wouldn't 'spute it. I sure wouldn't. I
wouldn't 'spute it. No, I sure wouldn't 'spute it.
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Gottlieb: Were there a whole lot of other Black people from South Carolina
in the Second Baptist Church when you were-- when you first started
attending services there, do you remember?
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Charner C.: Well, I don't know. I can't remember. But from my-- where I
came from, there I didn't-- there wasn't any. No, of course from where I
was. No.
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Gottlieb: Did you ever-- were you ever aware of any clubs of Black people
from South Carolina in Homestead that were formed kind of as a social club,
just for just for people from South Carolina?
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Charner C.: No, I can't remember that. I never heard of one. I don't
know.
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Gottlieb: Can you tell me about the the church groups that, that you've
been active in, things like the Board of Deacons or Board of Trustees or
the Missionary Society? Things like that.
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Charner C.: What you want to know about them?
00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:51.000
Gottlieb: I just wanted to know which ones that you-- that you've been
been a part of.
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Charner C.: Well, I'm a part of all of them now. I belong to-- yeah. The
Deacon board and the men Bible class. I'm vice teacher of the men Bible
class now in my-- Missionary Circle. I belong to that, and-- my wife
lifetime. I joined it way before she, she died and she was a cause of me
joining that because of-- see the missionary mostly around here was started
with the women department like. The women department like. But anybody
could join. And so since, since we were together man and wife, she said,
why don't you come on and join our club, too? And I went on and joined the
Missionary Club with her. And this-- was in that guild all the time. And
she passed. I didn't get out of it. Just stayed, just stayed in. I pay my
dues every month now. Well, I pay them twice a year now. They pay for six
months at a time. And it's like that now. Paid up now until June. I don't
know.
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Gottlieb: What kind of work do you do in the, uh, Missionary Circle?
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Charner C.: Well, you. You go around and see people. Assist them and if
they need prayer, pray for them and things like that and needed-- they need
some money or something like that. You get together and get a committee and
get so much money to be able to help. The club like.
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Gottlieb: What about the men's Bible class? What kind of thing do you just
study the Bible there with a group of other men? Charner C.: Yeah.
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Charner C.: And we, we. We have a-- give so much money to the Sunday
School for childrens. Buying candy at Christmas time and things like that.
Right. Gottlieb: Do you have an Usher's Union at your church?
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Charner C.: There's not a union, but there's ushers there. There's ushers
there. Yeah. There's a Usher's Union, but I don't know. I think our church
got out of the union once they've been. Yeah. The Ushers Union's just like
the labor union now, anyway, the Usher Union still in the valley, but-- I'm
not too sure, but I think it's out of it now. They, they joined us for a
long time for some reason or another. Yeah. See, they have a president. The
Usher Board has a head man just like anything else, you know. And he, he
attends some of these here meetings and things like that going around and I
think it's something that he doesn't like in them. And so you can serve a
year or so many years and then any year you can pull out. You can pull out
if you want to, you know, like that. Like that. But, just, just to think
about it now, I never served as an usher, but just to think about it now, I
would rather be in the union. Let's look at it to me, you know, like that I
would, but I don't know why. He was in for a long time, but I think he is
out now on a kind of some decision I think.
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Gottlieb: Do you ever belong to the choir?
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Charner C.: No. I never sang with the choir. My wife was a choir singer.
She was.
00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:32.000
Gottlieb: Um, did you know anything about the The Holiness Churches in
Homestead? Did you ever. You ever pay any attention?
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Charner C.: They're [??]-- I don't think I've been in-- maybe 1 or 2.
Maybe the whole time I've been here. I haven't been in over 2 or 3 of them
churches, you know.
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Gottlieb: Did there used to be a lot of them here?
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Charner C.: Yeah. Yeah, used to be quite a few little small places on the
corner and on different places around. Whenever they see em. Too much fuss
for me. I don't condemn them. I don't say they weren't right or nothing
like that, but just too much carrying on. I don't like too much fuss and
things.
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:16.000
Gottlieb: When did you go to these, to these churches?
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Charner C.: Oh.
Gottlieb: Was it a long time ago.
00:23:18.000 --> 00:23:24.000
Charner C.: A long time ago. And here lately, I haven't been to one lately
at all.
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Gottlieb: Did somebody invite you to go? Is that, is that why you went?
Were you just going there?
00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:37.000
Charner C.: Well, yes. Somebody asked me to come by and, you know, see how
they carry on and all like that.
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Gottlieb: Did you ever know anybody who, uh, who was a member of a, of a
Holiness Church?
00:23:46.000 --> 00:24:10.000
Charner C.: Yes, I did. They left here now, they-- 1 or 2 people did. They
left here. I think they went to some part of the East. Philadelphia or
Brooklyn, New York, somewhere back there.
00:24:10.000 --> 00:24:15.000
Gottlieb: Did you belong to any other organizations like the Oddfellows--
besides the Oddfellows?
00:24:15.000 --> 00:24:18.000
Charner C.: That's all.
00:24:18.000 --> 00:24:26.000
Gottlieb: You ever belong to any athletic clubs or anything like that.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:31.000
Charner C.: What you mean by athletic? Maybe-- what you call athletics?
What you call it?
00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:49.000
Gottlieb: Well, uh, the uh, the company, the Carnegie-illinois Steel used
to have a recreation room there for, for black men. Uh, they used to have a
club room in there where you could do some boxing and things like that. You
ever-- did you ever participate in that in any way?
00:24:49.000 --> 00:25:06.000
Charner C.: Well, no, but I know what you're talking about now, since
that-- I know of that. Yeah, I know of that. That's right. They did that.
But I never did take any part in boxing or anything like.
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Gottlieb: Did you ever become an officer in the Oddfellows?
00:25:09.000 --> 00:25:14.000
Charner C.: No. No, I didn't. Never did. Gottlieb: Do you still belong to
them now?
00:25:14.000 --> 00:26:49.000
Charner C.: No. I've dropped out since I got here, and I sent my money
back for a long time and I just, wasn't able to meet them like I wanted.
And I just dropped out before my wife passed away. Way before my wife
passed. Well, he was a pretty nice guy. Pretty nice guy. I noticed when
they were back here, they had a place down near the court where you go to
him for help during depression time. And we was working 1 or 2 days on a
pay like that. Go and get a-- he'd let you have a sack of flour down there.
There's a place down there from the company, you know, and all. He was old
steel, you know. He'd let you have some. But I didn't-- I think I got one,
one sack of flour down there and my wife didn't like it, and so I never did
go back. You didn't have-- It's just guilt, you know. You didn't have to
pay for it. And she-- at the same time she went to work for [??] on
Squirrel Hill over there. Would help me out and so we didn't-- just really
didn't need it. You know how-- make up about it.
00:26:49.000 --> 00:26:56.000
Gottlieb: So you thought Nelson was a pretty good-- Charner C.: Right.
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Charner C.: He's a minister. He had a church over on the, on the North
Side. Gottlieb: Yeah, Victory Baptist Church it was. Charner C.: Yeah,
Vict-- right, right. That's right. That's where he died. Victory Baptist
Church. Uh, our pastor, one of his buddies. I call him his buddy, the
pastor we got now is a man who's almost a buddy. Reverend Bates is calling
now. He's the pastor there now. Young fella like our pastor here. He's,
he's got it. He's in that church there now. Victory Baptist Church. That's
where Reverend Nelson died, right.
00:27:28.000 --> 00:27:32.000
Gottlieb: Was this place where you could get food during the Depression.
Was that just for Black people or could anybody--
00:27:32.000 --> 00:27:35.000
Charner C.: Oh, no, everybody
00:27:35.000 --> 00:27:41.000
Gottlieb: Wasn't Reverend Nelson sort of the person who was supposed to
help Black people particulary. Charner C.: Right, right. Right.
00:27:41.000 --> 00:27:44.000
Charner C.: That's what I'm saying.
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:49.000
Gottlieb: You, you know of any other kinds of things that he would do to
help Black people?
00:27:49.000 --> 00:28:09.000
Charner C.: No, I don't know anything else. Was involved in. That was a
company, though, but he was-- be the, I'd say like a boss of seeing it.
Going out or something like that. Right. The company stuff. But he was the
overseer of the company. Yeah.
00:28:09.000 --> 00:28:12.000
Gottlieb: Right. So you never got laid off during the Depression?
00:28:12.000 --> 00:28:13.000
Charner C.: No.
00:28:13.000 --> 00:28:14.000
Gottlieb: They just cut you back.
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:25.000
Charner C.: Right. Right. I always had a day on the pay. You know. Hold a
check all the time. Gottlieb: Things got pretty slow, though? Charner C.:
Right, right.
00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:28.000
Gottlieb: Did you ever look for any other kind of work?
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:54.000
Charner C.: Yes, I did. But it wasn't. You couldn't get it. And then if
you, if you got on to another job anywhere, you couldn't-- you couldn't
keep that job and that mill job, too, because it'd be gone just about the
time-- same that time that mill job had gone. And then that'd be. If you
missed one, then you just out.
00:28:54.000 --> 00:29:02.000
Gottlieb: Did you-- were you very interested in the union when it first
got started here?
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:36.000
Charner C.: No, I wasn't. To tell you the truth, no. I wasn't. I'll have
to say it in this way. The unions wasn't a union whenever-- until I. Not
when I first started off.
00:29:36.000 --> 00:30:36.000
Charner C.: Somebody maybe told you about that. But anyway, he made a
speech at the West Field on the platform. Now, joining me, when he first
come around, I was about the last or next to the last person on the job
where I was working at, joined. And they said I was holding them back, you
know, from getting something you know about. And after they say that I just
went on and joined. But I wasn't in favor of it doing anything. But after
it got in circulation and this man's name come right out. Almost told you
right now. But anyway, he made a speech up there. I'll tell you what I
thought about there. There was some talk that the companies would soon put
them out of business, you know, and the people that were joining them and
all like that, they would get fired and everything like that and they
wouldn't, wouldn't take it. But after I heard him make a speak of it at
West Field on a platform. He said the union-- he said he knows men in the
Mill come out of the Mill now. But living now and getting a pension--
