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Peter Gottlieb: Staying with the family or was it a big rooming house?
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John B.: That one was a rooming house. Group of families running it, you
know. Group of tables. It would've been a and [unintelligible].
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Gottlieb: Was that a Black family? John B.: Mhm. Gottlieb: What did you
think of Homestead when you first got up here?
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John B.: Well I tell you, I-- somehow or other I was anticipating a better
future. But the Homestead was-- it was long-- It was much different what it
is now because much gambling and caba-- what you call them. Caba, caba--
Cabarets. That's what you call them going on and gambling places. And the
women. Oh. Quite a week. And Homestead was called one of the wide awake
places in Western Homestead, in Western Pennsylvania. And so it was very
much alive and-- I'd been a church boy. I grew up in church and Christian
home. I didn't care too much about that part of it. But I still-- I wanted
to make that money. I wanted to do that.
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Gottlieb: You know, what kind of-- what kind of job did they give you in
the mill when you began to work?
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John B.: When I first came they give me a job that nobody hardly wanted,
nobody would. One of the toughest jobs was known in the field. I was a
little stouter than I am now, and I was considered kind of strong. And the
job they gave me, we call it scrap carrying. You had to handle the hot
steel that the chairs would scrap. The chairs would cut off of the rear
plate and you had to handle it in your arm and put it up
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John B.: In another smaller chair, which we call scrap chair. And you go
back-- Go back to the open hearth and so forth. And he must, oh, you must.
And you carry in the arm. But it's hot. Sometimes it's blaze up. But you
had some gloves. Great big, heavy gloves and leather on the inside of it so
you wouldn't get burned so much with that stuff. And but I did get burned
and I got burned. And so some people were-- some of the boys would put on
that job would walk off after so long, he couldn't stand it. And we said,
it's kind of dangerous, too. And so when I was, the seven man job and so I
didn't know where I was going, what I was doing. So they put me on that job
and I stuck there. I said it was like I came to be the boss of that job.
That is the head of the seven men. And I worked there, 14 years there.
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Gottlieb: You did?
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John B.: Some jobs are like that. I finally quit. It was too hard for me.
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Gottlieb: How much were they paying you then at that time?
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John B.: $4. Uh, $.60. And then I became the foreman. I did $4.90. That's
how I got on that job. But the man that put 60.
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Gottlieb: A day? John B.: Mhm. Gottlieb: This was. This would be in a
rolling mill. John B.: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Gottlieb: Were all the other men
that you were-- that were in your gang, were they all Black?
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John B.: Yeah, well, we had. We in fact, when I first went there, we had a
Slavic fella was the boss of the job, and he work-- I work, the other men
work and quit. But I stayed. And after he got old and everything, wasn't
like it is now. Union wasn't, you know, operating. But anyhow, he had
this-- he had quit the job. And so I stepped up into his place. So he was
the only one. Only White man on the job.
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Gottlieb: And after you became foreman, all the other people you were over
were Black.
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John B.: Yeah, that's what I'm saying. But sometime it might be that
sometimes someone would lay off and you had to take them. Get a man from
the labor gang. And sometime he'd be White, but he'd come up there to work
maybe a day or something like that, but didn't belong on that particular
job.
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Gottlieb: Now, you said you had to go into the Army after a while. How
long were you in Homestead for that first period of time before you got
called?
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John B.: As a matter of a month, I came in 17, left in 17. Gottlieb: Do
you remember the-- John B.: But I didn't go in the Army then. I didn't go
down until 18. But I left, I think I mentioned that I went to North
Carolina and I got a job and worked until they called me to go in, after I
went there they didn't take me.
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Gottlieb: But the only reason you went back to North Carolina is because
you thought you were going to have to go into the Army.
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John B.: No, I got the notice to come back. Gottlieb: Yeah. John B.: You
see, I had-- when I registered, I had registered from North Carolina, which
I was lived in Richmond, Virginia. But I had the idea that I'd be with my
boys or somebody I knew. And I didn't understand what I didn't know what I
was doing. But anyhow, that way I reckon. So they called me, but when they
called me, they had, they had enough men. I mean after I got there, nobody
had to go till the next time. And I worked while I waited.
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Gottlieb: Did you intend when you left Homestead to come back when you
were-- you had gotten out of the Army? Did you have any plans about what
you were going to do when you got finished with the Army?
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John B.: Yes, I thought I'd come back. If-- that is if I live, you know, I
don't know. I expect you gonna die, you know, I was gonna die. Never know.
I'll never be back anyway. I'll never live to get through. But I considered
it. This would be my job. If I had understood, I wouldn't even. I couldn't
even. You see, I had to be rehired. And I come back because I quit. I did
what we call jack up. If I didn't have to do it, my time would have gone
on. But I didn't understand. I was a young man, and so I quit. That's the
way it was. Well enough. I quit. I got to be rehired. Gottlieb: Yeah. John
B.: So I came back, and I. I don't know how long. Let me see. Oh, I came
back in May, I think it was. I went down in January. And then stay all that
time home. May.
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Gottlieb: You came back in May 1918? John B.: Mhm. Gottlieb: Did you speak
to anybody before you left and tell them-- somebody in the mill, I mean--
and tell them I'd like to come back? John B.: No, no, no.
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John B.: I wouldn't have. If I had, anybody would advise me to not, you
know, jack up, we call it that, that they had. But I didn't. I, you know, I
felt like this is it. So I just pay did-- hold back two weeks pay on.
Gottlieb: Yeah. John B.: Well when I jacked up they give you that two weeks
pay and so that left me free, you know.
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Gottlieb: And if you had left that two weeks pay there, no matter how long
you had been gone, if you came back, they-- they would have-- they you
wouldn't have had to rehire. They would have taken you back on.
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John B.: Well, I couldn't answer that exactly, but I'm pretty sure they
would have. But I don't know. I never had that experience. You know what I
mean? But I'm pretty sure they would have because my money would be there.
Gottlieb: Yeah.
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Gottlieb: Did you get a job in North Carolina between the time you went
back and the time you went into the Army?
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John B.: Yeah, that's when I worked for Kevin. I don't know what I
mentioned the other night. I worked there for a while, not very long, of
course, but I was a while there.
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Gottlieb: What kind of job?
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John B.: Well, working there. Uh, he was building that I said before the
war, they fixin up the fort when I was there. Had carpenters and whatnot.
And I was what you call a laborer around there helping the cobblers and so
forth, building that fort.
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Gottlieb: Were you living at home with your parents? John B.: Oh, yeah, I
lived at home.
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Gottlieb: What kind of position did you have in the Army when you were
taken in finally?
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John B.: Yeah, I, uh. I never, never made. I acted mostly, that's what.
When you're acting. You are not it. You know what I mean? And so I left. I
was private. Then I went to corporal, and I left corporal, I was acting
sergeant. But I never was a sergeant. But I acted. That is, if it hadn't
been that-- Labor Department have been and we had-- didn't have many
Blacks, you know. And so I had that job acting. I'd carry a gun maybe
whenever I post a sentence. That is what-- you know, on the job or the
police around the camp and so forth. I carry a gun then, but otherwise I
wasn't even allowed to have a gun, you see. And they would-- That's why I
got in there. I didn't-- I never a sergeant, but I acted.
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Gottlieb: Were you stationed at that same camp where you had been working?
John B.: Yeah.
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John B.: No, no, that wasn't the camp where I was working. I was working
on the fort. I mean, yeah, but the food, you know, that's way they ship
food was coming in, but the camp was where the soldiers trained and so
forth. That was inland. The fort was on the water. And so. That's how I got
in the fort. I never made it.
00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:43.000
Gottlieb: And you got-- you got out of the Army in 1918.
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John B.: 1918. Yeah. You know, I have discharge in here somewhere. Yeah.
1918. Yeah.
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Gottlieb: Well, the war wasn't over until later on in 1918. In November.
But you got-- You got mustered out before that? Before the war was over.
John B.: No. Now you caught me.
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John B.: Mine was 1919. Gottlieb: Okay. John B.: Because 19 when the war
ended, we paraded. I was in the service. We paraded down the street on that
11th day of November, wasn't it? I think that's right. Anyhow, we paraded
and so I said 1918, I came home. It had to be 1919. I in there because I
came out in March, I think it was. But anyhow, I said I had it wrong. Wrong
year.
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Gottlieb: You were you living at home the whole time you were in the Army?
Or did you stay in the barracks when you were in the Army?
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John B.: Oh, I was in the barracks. Yeah, in the. At the camp. Yeah. Yeah.
You couldn't live at home. You. And then the 200 mile, I get, 200 mile
between to my home and.
00:12:07.000 --> 00:12:13.000
Gottlieb: What did you do when they-- When they, uh, discharged you
finally? Did you come right straight back to Homestead or did you?
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John B.: No, I did not, but. Yeah, though. I think I. My second I--
discharged, they hired in May when I came back to Homestead. In May.
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Gottlieb: Did you have any job in between the time you got discharged and
the time you came back here? John B.: No. Got a job after that.
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John B.: I don't know. I think I mentioned before my mother had to help me
get to Richmond to catch another chance to come back here. Gottlieb: Oh,
yeah. John B.: Yeah. Yeah. My mother had to give me some money and her
watch. I think I mentioned that to you.
00:12:57.000 --> 00:13:00.000
Gottlieb: Yes, that's true. But that was the first time you came. John B.:
Yeah. Gottlieb: Is that right?
00:13:00.000 --> 00:13:06.000
John B.: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. You got. You got it
straighter than I have. Yeah, that's right.
00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:13.000
Gottlieb: But when you came back to Homestead in 1919, did you come on
transportation again?
00:13:13.000 --> 00:13:30.000
John B.: Not-- I didn't go to Homestead. No, in fact, I didn't. I went to
another town. Then I left there and came to Homestead. Don't remember which
town I was in. They have works up there now. I mean, steel works up there
now.
00:13:30.000 --> 00:13:47.000
Gottlieb: Is it around here?
John B.: Yeah, up there. I can't call her name right now. Gottlieb: You
came? John B.: No, no, not. Up the river. Up there. I'm up there. Almost
there. While.
00:13:47.000 --> 00:13:59.000
Gottlieb: Aliquippa. John B.: Yeah. Gottlieb: You were up there? John B.:
Yeah, that's it. Gottlieb:Oh. Did you come back on your own to this-- to
Wstern Pennsylvania? I mean, did you take your-- Did you pay your own way
up here?
00:13:59.000 --> 00:14:09.000
John B.: Not from-- Not from-- Uh, I did from Aliquippa. Yeah. Yeah, but
not to Aliquippa. I came over, that's [unintelligible] to Aliquippa.
00:14:09.000 --> 00:14:20.000
Gottlieb: Did that leave from Richmond as well? John B.: Yeah. Gottlieb:
You didn't work very long at Aliquippa?
00:14:20.000 --> 00:14:31.000
John B.: No, no, I didn't like it because first job was digging up-- up
the streets up there. It was a pit. I figured I could do better than that.
00:14:31.000 --> 00:14:33.000
Gottlieb: It wasn't a steel mill job.
00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:45.000
John B.: It's a steel mill job. All right. But I wasn't in the mill. I was
in. Gottlieb: Working out in the yard. John B.: That's. Yeah, that's what
that. Yeah. Aliquippa, I came to Aliquippa. Actually, that was Aliquippa.
00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:58.000
Gottlieb: And so you--
John B.: But-- Pardon me. It wasn't called Aliquippa then? No, the name
was-- Something else. But that's the name of the place now. Anyhow, that's
all right.
00:14:58.000 --> 00:15:16.000
Gottlieb: There used to be an amusement park up there. That's what was
originally there before they built the mill. But I can't remember what the
name of the amusement park was.
00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:21.000
John B.: Try to think of the original name. I can't think. Aliquippa.
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Gottlieb: So you came back down to Homestead? John B.: Yeah. You see, when
I went to Aliquippa.
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John B.: They took my luggage and everything. And, uh, lock it up. They
told me, you have to work so long. Gottlieb: Oh, really? John B.: And I
left there and left my luggage and everything and came to Homestead on-- on
the car. On the car, even, something like that. Working, I-- had never come
home. And I worked at Homestead without my luggage and my clothes.
00:16:02.000 --> 00:16:10.000
John B.: And after I got the money, I went back there and paid what I owed
them and got my letter to come back to Homestead.
00:16:10.000 --> 00:16:22.000
Gottlieb: Did transportation to Aliquippa work the same way that a
transportation to Homestead did? Did they give you a meal when you got to
Aliquippa and register you there and show you to a boarding house and all
that?
00:16:22.000 --> 00:16:26.000
John B.: Yes. Yes.
00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:30.000
Gottlieb: Had they taken your luggage at Homestead when you had first come
up in 1917?
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:36.000
John B.: [simultaneous talking] No, never, never did. No, it is not the
way we did that.
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:39.000
Gottlieb: How were you able to get your old job back?
00:16:39.000 --> 00:16:41.000
John B.: You mean my old job.
00:16:41.000 --> 00:16:49.000
Gottlieb: At Homestead, your job that you would have before you went back
to North Carolina, you told me you were working around the scrap chute.
John B.: Yeah, I. Yeah.
00:16:49.000 --> 00:17:11.000
John B.: Well, I didn't go back on the old job right away. Finally I went
on that job, scrap job when I didn't know any better. But the next job--
Now let me see. I'm 50 there somewhere. I don't know where. Now let's get
it straight. Some years, you know, 60 years ago or so.
00:17:11.000 --> 00:17:30.000
Gottlieb: And I'm asking you lots of detailed kind of questions.
00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:32.000
John B.: I can't get it together.
00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:35.000
Gottlieb: Did you go to the employment office in order to get a job when
you came back to Homestead from Aliquippa?
00:17:35.000 --> 00:17:40.000
John B.: Oh, yes, I had to go there to get hired.
00:17:40.000 --> 00:17:44.000
Gottlieb: How did they know you down there from the time you had worked
before?
00:17:44.000 --> 00:18:28.000
John B.: No, until I give my name. And then you said back at me. That's
where I've learned that I should have never jacked up. They told me there
and then. Why would I leave? You know? But when I went back to get the job,
I didn't know what I was doing. Young fella, you know you want to get his
money and get away. Gottlieb: Yeah. John B.: And so I was laying down and I
just balled up, came down here. Blew it. I could have even gone to the Army
from Pennsylvania and got a bonus. You know that pension. But North
Carolina didn't pay. I blew everything there.
00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:36.000
Gottlieb: Did you go back to live at the same place you had been living
before in Homestead when you came back from Aliquippa?
00:18:36.000 --> 00:18:41.000
John B.: No, no. I just-- no.
00:18:41.000 --> 00:18:47.000
Gottlieb: Was this the time you were living up on-- John B.: [simultaneous
talking] Sixth Avenue. Gottlieb: Were you staying with friends with time
or--
00:18:47.000 --> 00:18:55.000
John B.: Well, I didn't even know them. But, I mean, I hadn't.
[unintelligible]
00:18:55.000 --> 00:18:59.000
Gottlieb: You found your own place to stay. Then you just went out to a
place?
00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:07.000
John B.: Yeah, because I come in on my own and see it. That time. Second
time because they wasn't responsible for me, you know?
00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:14.000
Gottlieb: Did you stay at Homestead now after you came back in 1919? Did
you-- or did you ever go anyplace else?
00:19:14.000 --> 00:19:35.000
John B.: No, I never-- I lived right in Homestead. I got married here in
27 [??], [unintelligible].
00:19:35.000 --> 00:19:41.000
Gottlieb: Were you going back to North Carolina from 1919 on to visit?
00:19:41.000 --> 00:19:59.000
John B.: Oh, yes. I've been back there. My father-- my mother died, I was
there. My father died, I was there. I was there when my mother had to
undergo an operation.
00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:02.000
Gottlieb: Did you used to go back regularly, like for holidays, like
Christmas?
00:20:02.000 --> 00:20:13.000
John B.: No, not now. And I don't think I don't think I've ever been on a
trip. But I didn't go. I wasn't like year, every year. I didn't.
00:20:13.000 --> 00:20:19.000
Gottlieb: Was it common for men to do that? As far as you know, was it
common for men to go back?
00:20:19.000 --> 00:20:49.000
John B.: Yes. Yes. And some men were, you know, had the-- the future wives
were living there. They had to go back and come back, got married. Some
friends of the wives and so forth. It wasn't their wives then what I mean,
friends of the girlfriend and married and so forth. I didn't have any
future wife there. And so I never had to go back. You know that. My mother
and father was there. And ___[??]
00:20:49.000 --> 00:21:01.000
Gottlieb: Do you know why you decided to make Homestead your your new
home? You had been in a lot of different places.
00:21:01.000 --> 00:22:04.000
John B.: Yeah. Well, I know-- I kind of got stuck here, I think, somehow.
After I get to work in the church and my friend, made quite a few friends
around and somehow when I knew I thought about it, I just stuck it on God
and. I never accumulated any property. I had property. My father and
myself, I had my father paid for property in North Carolina, but I never
accumulated any. Never owned a home here in Pennsylvania in my life until I
got to us. And I got through school on my own. I didn't-- I didn't care
about it at all. And I never owned a home, not in Pennsylvania, but I could
be president if I own the money. I wanted money now, but at the time when I
should have bought one. I wasn't able I couldn't-- that is, I didn't think
I could move. I wanted to have my money so I could do what I wanted to do
with it.
00:22:04.000 --> 00:22:13.000
Gottlieb: Where did you-- where did you make your friends in Homestead?
Did they come from the-- From the mill mainly, or from other places?
00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:57.000
John B.: Well, around the community. Some was in the mill and some was
working other places. Some was even working in Pittsburgh, around Duquesne
and another city. My church-- The church I belong to now, same church I
belong to 57 years. They had members from all around. You might say
McKeesport, Duquesne, Braddock, Homewood down here, they was all around.
And so kindly give me a kind of broad scope around, [unintelligible].
00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:14.000
Gottlieb: Was there a group of men that you got to know on the job that
you used to do things together with? Or after work, did you pretty much
spend time by yourself? No, I didn't.
00:23:14.000 --> 00:23:41.000
John B.: We had a little, I guess all men, every man have a little, you
know, inner circle. Usage with grew around with and I had a few friends.
One of them came to be my brother-in-law. And I know.
00:23:41.000 --> 00:23:51.000
Gottlieb: Were these people that you work with on the job? John B.:
[unintelligible] Gottlieb: In the mill? Were they members of a gang around
the year?
00:23:51.000 --> 00:24:20.000
John B.: Yeah, only right in the same department that I worked in. I think
there's only about 1 or 2. There's a couple of them that were really
associated with. We call them buddies, you know. So a couple of them.
00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:32.000
Gottlieb: Do you remember any of the foremen at the mill when you were
working there? John B.: Yeah. In the department.
00:24:32.000 --> 00:25:16.000
John B.: Yeah. Washington [??]. [unintelligible] Mike Vyusik [ph]. He's a
mayor of West Homestead and he's also my foreman. [unintelligible] But Mike
Vyusik was my last foreman. When I retired, he was foreman there. Like
Jefferson ten [??]. He's dead now.
00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:22.000
Gottlieb: How did they treat the men-- the Black men from the South that
come up here?
00:25:22.000 --> 00:26:13.000
John B.: Well, they-- I think that I couldn't see very much difference.
You see. I don't know. We've always started with the underdog, of course.
And we got the job that-- You didn't get the top job. You didn't get what
we should have gotten. We didn't get even what we can get now. I might put
it that way. But later, since the union has come in, perhaps you gon get
justice now. But better than it was then. They did have-- things have been
better than our chances were in the South. But not too much better.
00:26:13.000 --> 00:26:18.000
Gottlieb: Were you pretty satisfied with the way that you were treated by
foremen?
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:44.000
John B.: Yes, only one. I didn't-- he didn't care much for me.
[unintelligible]
00:26:44.000 --> 00:27:02.000
John B.: Anyhow. This particular foreman, he didn't care much for me. The
job [unintelligible] He-- After the White man had quit the job, I had
another fellow from North Carolina. He was workin' on the job.
00:27:02.000 --> 00:27:12.000
John B.: But I was always on the job. I doin' this man on the job and said
this man, foreman, used up more this other boy than you or me. So he put
this boy on the job.
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:26.000
John B.: He did it. The foreman. And I know he did it. And I--
[unintelligible]
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:29.000
John B.: The boss also put in there [??].
00:27:29.000 --> 00:28:27.000
John B.: Well, I'll go to the boss. Well, you know, I kind of. I woke up
then, you know what I mean? I had to wait a long time. 15 years without
foreman. Not too dumb on the job then. So I decided just to, to go. I left,
go to the office, talk to the superintendent. And he came over to me. Said,
come on. Said, he's afraid, I don't know whether the superintendent told
him to do so or not, but it would be laid on somebody. You know what I
mean? Somebody was wrong, even if superintendent was. And so, uh, uh, I
went down there. I got time. He didn't like it. But the other one that
said.
00:28:27.000 --> 00:28:45.000
John B.: The one I met before. He said-- I like him. He's the mayor down
here in Homestead now. I like him, he gotta-- he gotta-- like that working
under him in the mill and then living, and he the mayor. So we got along
____[??] now.
00:28:45.000 --> 00:28:48.000
Gottlieb: Um. Do you feel that the company treated Blacks pretty well?
00:28:48.000 --> 00:30:23.000
John B.: No, I, I couldn't-- I don't think-- No, I couldn't. No, you get
to the ___[??] and sit down. Twice in my life, another time this happen.
Similar to the one that you just went over. I was doing a job when I quit
that job. I was chippin' low, workin' what they call a chippin' job. And
the chipper, the man that was loading, the load man, was next to, he's
trying to go around. And lift and up to the crane and the crane and putting
the car in-- that job telling me. You see that job for me? And so this
foreman there, he put another man there, too, that wasn't used, he had
moved up to him to continue. So but anyhow. Put him, that foreman put
another man there. Put him over there. And so some boy told me about it. I
didn't know it about it. And I went out there to find out about that, too.
So. You going to do it? So I left and went to go to the office. The office
was outside of the mill.
00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:50.000
John B.: Outside of the mill. You worker man had to walk across a lot to
get to the ___[??]. So I left and went over there. And I had to go to
___________[??] [unintelligible] Up on top of the
00:30:50.000 --> 00:31:50.000
John B.: That was way at the bottom of the steps 'cause the superintendent
come down until he gets ready to [unintelligible] And while I--
