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Michael Snow: Before I turned over the tape that you ran away to New York
City? Sala Udin: Yeah, when I was 16. Um, having dropped out of two high
schools [laughs] by the age of 16, and I went to New York to, uh, to find a
job. Um, to try to do something with my life-- to begin my adulthood,
really, is what I was doing. What I thought I was doing. Um-- fortunately
my mother had two sisters who lived in New York, and they snatched me from
the lion's jaw and moved me in with them. Um, they were both nurses, so
they had a middle class income, um and they had, one of them had a son, the
other had no children. They owned a home, and they brought me in as one of
their children. Their son was my age. He was in school, and because he was
the only son of two Middle class nurses, he had everything he needed in
school. He was like the kids at Schenley. Snow: Hmm. Udin: Only this time I
went to school with him, so I became one of them.
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Snow: Oh, I see.
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Udin: And this time I was accepted, socially, because he was very popular.
And-- once I got socially accepted, I was inspired to apply myself
academically, and next thing I knew I was on the honor roll, and graduated
from high school. [I] Played sports-- and did well. That's where I
graduated from high school on Staten Island, New York.
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Snow: That's fantastic. Before I forget. What were your parents names?
Udin: My mother is Mary Sutton.
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Udin: Howze. And my father was William Howze.
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Snow: How are you doing for time?
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Udin: We're getting close. I got a little bit more time. We can-- I have a
little bit of flex time.
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Snow: I was wondering if you had any military experience. Udin: No. Snow:
And what were your plans after graduating from high school?
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Udin: I had talked myself into, um, mortuary school. Snow: Okay. Udin:
When I was a kid, I learned early that-- first of all, the the best dressed
man in the neighborhood was the undertaker, and he always had a big,
beautiful, black Cadillac. I didn't realize at the time it was a hearse-- a
hearse [laughter] but, he always had a beautiful black car, and I would
tell people that I wanted to be an undertaker because that's what he was,
and I didn't have a clue what the hell undertakers did, but I know he
dressed fine and his car was always polished, and I wanted to be like that.
And, so I learned that-- when I told people that I wanted to be an
undertaker, I always got a reaction. I got attention, um, and so I kept
doing it, and so since I didn't have a clue when I was in school, high
school, as to what I wanted to be when I grew up, I would-- whenever people
ask you that constant question, Snow: Yes. Udin: what are you going to be
when you grow up, I just say I want to be an undertaker, and they'd say,
Wow.
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Udin: You want to be an undertaker? [unintelligible] wants to be an
undertaker. [unintelligible] Undertaker.
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Udin: So I loved that reaction that I always got, so I kept doing it. And
when my aunts asked me, What do you want to be? I want to be undertaker.
And so when I graduated from school, lo and behold, my aunt brought this
application package. It was for undertaker school. And so I had said it so
much, and they had gone out of their way to prepare to pay the tuition and
everything.
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Snow: Oh, really.
Udin: That I had to go. So I went to undertaker school, in New York. It
was called the McAllister Academy of Business and Mortuary Science. And,
that's where I did my college work. And I did very well. Uh, surprisingly,
I liked it. I liked the science courses that were connected to it-- the
chemistry, the biology,the physiology that we had to study. I liked the,
um, embalming, and learning how to do that, and going to the morgue and
embalming John Doe's and Jane Doe's-- unclaimed bodies-- New York has a lot
of them. Snow: Yes. Udin: And I learned how to be an undertaker. And I went
to-- I didn't quite finish school, and there was this summer I was doing
this internship, and, um, at a funeral home in Harlem called Douglass
Funeral Home, and I got to see a side, the business side of undertaking at
work. And I decided, my God, I don't want to do this. I don't want to--
exploit grief like this. Now, it may have been that this particular
undertaker, um, was not like all the rest, maybe he was different, but I
certainly-- it was my perception that they just-- they would just figure
out how much money people had to spend and that's what they were going to
get them to spend on the funeral.
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Snow: That's about the same time as that famous exposé came out, The
American Way of Death.
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Udin: Probably so. Yes.
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Snow: So it sounds like it may have been par for the course at that time.
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udin Well, I said this is not for me. I don't want to do this. And I
dropped out of school. Um, I started working. [I] worked at a post office.
And, um, then came home to Pittsburgh for a summer-- for vacation rather
during the summer, and wanted to go out on a date with this young lady I
was pursuing. And she said she would go to the movies with me, but I first
had to meet her at this this ev-- this speaking engagement that she was
going to, and then we could go to the movie afterwards. So I said, okay,
you know, I'll meet you at the speaking engagement. I didn't care anything
about the speaking engagement, but, you know, I could pretend if it helped
me with the date.[laughter] So, I was in the basement of the church, and
waiting for her and waiting for the program to start. And I was smoking.
And, um, I was asking myself, I wonder if I could smoke. I mean, I know
this is a church, but I am in the basement, so maybe it would be okay. And
a guy came up and asked me, do you know if it's okay to smoke in here? So I
said, yeah, I was thinking about the same thing. I said, We better step
outside just in case it's not okay. So we started talking, getting
acquainted. Um, he asked me what brought me there. I said, man I'm trying
to get out on a date [laughter] and she wants me to listen to some
knucklehead give a speech.
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Udin: So I don't know what-- you know that's what I'm doing here. So he
said, I can dig it. So we kept smoking and talking eventually. She came and
we went inside and we all sat down together, [we] were still talking.
Program starts, the MC gets up and says, Ladies and gentlemen, we have a
really special treat for you this evening. We have a civil rights worker
from Mississippi who is here with us this evening. Um, He's on a recruiting
trip up north and he wants to tell us about his experience and to raise
money for the Student Nonviolent Coordinating Committee and-- um, and to
recruit volunteers to work this summer in the South. And-- ladies and
gentleman I'd like to introduce Mr. Don Hamer and the guy who I call the
knucklehead, who's sitting right next to me stood up. I said, Oh no, I was
so embarrassed. But he just smiled. He got a kick out of it, and he went up
to the front of the room and shared some of the things that they were
experiencing in Mississippi. Now, all this time I had been living in New
York. I spent most of my time in Harlem. I went to school in Staten Island,
but I hung out in Harlem. Snow: Okay. Udin: And I listened a lot to this
guy who was a step ladder preacher, where he'd be on the back of a pickup
truck, and he was the most articulate, piercing speaker I ever heard in my
life.
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Udin: They called him Big Red, and we would-- every Saturday the task
would be, let's drive around and find out where Big Red is speaking. So
Malcolm had made me a kind of a militant in New York, had made me a kind of
a militant during those times. This would be 63, 64, 65. Um, so I thought I
was pretty knowledgeable and articulate on militant civil rights issues.
Um, but when I heard this guy here in Pittsburgh tell me what was going on
in Mississippi. I said, wait a minute, man. Here's a White guy, in a Black
church, talking to you about your people and how-- what he's doing to help
your people in the South and you're sitting out in the goddamn audience.
What's wrong with this picture? I knew what was wrong with it. And three
weeks later, I was on a Greyhound bus on my way to Mississippi. Snow: Wow.
Udin: Um. I told him at the end of that session,that speech. I said I'm
coming to Mississippi. He said, Yeah, yeah, a lot of people told me that.
I'll believe it when I see it. I said, You'll see. Give me your
information, because I'm coming. So he said, be-- you'd better be sure you
know what you're getting into, because it's no picnic down there. Snow: I
doubt. Udin: I could handle myself, and I'm not concerned about that, um,
and sure enough, three weeks later, I was there.
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Snow: And you did this on your own. It wasn't like Freedom Summer or would
that--
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Udin: This was the-- this was the Freedom Summer of 65. Snow: Okay.
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Udin: Yes. Snow: So did you go through the training at Oberlin and all of
that?
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Udin: No, I got-- I got trained by fire. [laughter] I was baptized by
fire, right in Mississippi the first night I got there. That's the story
that you can read about it in the-- In Pittsburgh article if you've seen
it. A detailed-- my first night arriving in Mississippi. Snow: Okay. Udin:
Um, what a frightening experience that was, but I was-- he recruited me for
the summer and I'd agreed to stay the summer and then I was going back to
New York. Snow: Okay. Udin: Um, but that summer lasted five years, and at
that time-- during that time, that experience would answer the question,
What are you going to be when you grow up? I found that answer. There. In
Mississippi. In the jail cells, um, in the fields where we were organizing
farm workers. Getting our asses kicked by the clan. That's where I learned
who I was going to be and what I was going to be when I grew up, and I grew
up, there, in Mississippi, and became a lifelong Freedom Fighter. And
that's my profession now. That's my mission. That's my identity. That's who
I am and what I am,and wherever I go, whatever job I have, it is somehow
connected to that. Devoting my whole life to public service and to justice
and freedom. That's-- I found the answer, It wasn't being an undertaker.
[laughter] That was the answer.
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Snow: I think that's probably a good place to stop for now, so that you're
not late.
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Udin: Yes, thank you.
