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Speaker1: The tri state region. May be playing down Pittsburgh in the
process.
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Leroy Patrick: I don't think you can play down Pittsburgh. It's a hub.
This whole region depends upon Pittsburgh's-- Pittsburgh's prosperity and
Pittsburgh's identity. We are the capital for what? How many of the
national corporations are located here? The Steelworkers union is located
here. So that-- it's the key. It's the hub in what I see should be the
expansion and the growth of this area. That's why it's so important to make
this city itself a healthy city. And I think that here again, Pete could
have assumed the-- what the leadership of-- the hegemony of the, of the
entire process. If he had, if he had seen this as a role, which he wanted
to play, that is Wheeling is a sort of satellite, Aliquippa, Johnstown,
even Erie, though it's a little off the distance. But all of them, when you
think of Western Pennsylvania, you need to think of Pittsburgh. And
Pittsburgh is healthy. And I think we do have to diversify more than we've
done our, our, our economy. Then we would have we would have a healthy
Western Pennsylvania. Now, I'm not for the sky bus in its present form. But
I think we got to have some sort of rapid transportation in this city. You
can't have a metropolitan area where it takes you three buses to to get
from Northside to, to Homewood or at least Southside to Homewood. You know,
it doesn't make any kind of sense.
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Patrick: And it takes you two hours, because I had members who lived over
there and used the trolley to get to church and they had to leave home at
8:00 in the morning to get to an 11:00 service because they missed one bus
and they can't get another one for so and so in such a long period of time.
So when you say what about Pittsburgh in this whole West Pennsylvania
complex, I think it's the key. And I don't think we can build up a Cheswick
or a New Kensington or a Beaver or a Farrell or a Sharon. I think they have
to be satellites of what's happening in, in Allegheny County. And I really
don't see the leadership is addressing itself to that kind of problem.
Neither the business leadership, although we do have our Southwest regional
industrial cooperation and so on, those other kinds of things which
they've, which they've started, but none of them is putting the money
behind it. I'm convinced that if we had the same will to do that as we had
to clean up the triangle, that there is sufficient power and money in
Pittsburgh to do it. Because after all, the, the, the triangle was cleaned
up because the Mellon proliferated, proliferated interests wanted it
cleaned up, and they had a political organization which was willing to go
along with it. I just don't see that in the present time.
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Speaker3: Uh, don't you think, though, that the hope for Pittsburgh and
the area in general, especially in the job market, would be on a regional
level? That that could, uh, build up this whole area? I mean, jobs are the
whole thing. What it's all about, really? If there-- if you can bring some
money into the economy and if it can be done on a regional level. So that
you-- because Pittsburgh is itself is too small. There just aren't enough
jobs created--
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Patrick: Oh yeah, within the city proper. Speaker3: Yeah. Patrick: I'm
thinking about metropolitan Pittsburgh, and I suppose if you wanted to
extend it, you're perfectly right. But I'm saying that that anybody who
goes, who goes to live in Beaver or Farrell or Sharon or Aliquippa or any
of these outlying areas, look to Pittsburgh. The persons who go to that
place look to Pittsburgh as a place where I shall enhance my cultural life,
my business life, etcetera, so that you come here for the opera or you come
here for the symphony and you come here for for other things. And you've
got to have-- things that are good enough, including an educational system
that, that, that would attract. And that isn't true. So are you quite right
that we-- the jobs have left the city? And it may be that, that it's just
as well that we put some plants out in these other places. But who is
working on this? Who's putting money into this?
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Speaker3: Well the Allegheny Conference.
Speaker1: Well they certainly are. And they-- I don't know whether you
were not able to go, I suppose, to the annual meeting of the Congress. But
they--
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Patrick: Obviously, I didn't hear the speech however, but I had the
dinner. It was a good breast of chicken dinner. Speaker1: Yes. Patrick:
Which I always value because it's free.
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Speaker1: Well, they talked about the regional city, and we've had Jack
Robin here who was also emphasized in his very-- as much too. Generally
talking two areas, one that the county would assume larger portions already
is of the leadership in major governmental functions like planning or
transportation and environment. As a matter of fact, Robin listed a dozen
functions that were normally thought of as essentially having the
leadership of the city with other areas following to being now [??]. He was
really sort of trying to put together, and I guess this is on the agenda
for the next year coming up, a public educational program for us to realize
that we are part of the county or the region. This is-- we need to maybe
even have, as you suggested at one point, the county Home Rule Commission
really be a way of changing the names around. So we might have a mayor for
the region or some other acceptable name, that kind of thing. And at the
same time, we try to de-emphasize the city by the fact that it has a
smaller and smaller portion of the total regional population, that its
authority is pretty much limited internal to the city. And that's one kind
of picture that you get. So that Pete may be an obstacle, but don't pay any
attention to him because essentially we have a a county. Facility to county
government to provide that leadership so we can become like Toronto, Dade
County and so forth. Just--
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Patrick: He saw the present kind of leadership as affording.
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Speaker1: No, he didn't. Speaker3: Structure
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Patrick: But he sees that--
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Speaker1: Oh yes. He puts a big emphasis, too, on the importance of
working at this over time. Put together the structures and systematically
transfer the power and--
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Speaker4: This-- I think this is very important. Don't-- have, haven't you
ever seen a paradox in something like this. For instance, we're seeing now
in American cities, particularly the northeastern American cities, that the
emergence of, of a Black power. There's a Black mayor in Atlanta. New York
has a Black mayor, Gary, Indiana, and in all of a sudden in Pittsburgh--
What's the percentage of Black people in Pittsburgh.
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Patrick: Well, roughly 18 to 20% of the city. Speaker 4: Okay 18--
Patrick: 9 to 10% of the county.
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Speaker4: 18%. Now, as, as White people are beginning to flee, it would
seem that that Black political power would seem to be emerging. And this
seems to be a trend throughout all northeastern American cities. Now, when,
when Black people are beginning to emerge as a political force in cities,
we're starting to see this emphasis on, on metropolitan governments. We're
starting to see exactly what Dr.-- Speaker3: Do you think, do you think
it's a plot? Speaker4: I'm not saying that.
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Patrick: Dilute our power.
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Speaker4: But but don't you think that that's somewhat of a paradox. And
I'm sure I'm sure there are many Black people and and I'm sure there are
many working class White people that are, that are feeling the same thing I
know in my own community where I've been brought up. Patrick: Where is
that? Speaker4: In Carrick. Patrick: Oh, okay. Speaker4: A white working
class community. And I've heard this time and time again and there seems to
be this, this basic antithesis and-- not an antithesis but antipathy.
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Speaker3: Antipathy.
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Speaker4: That's right. For-- of, of White working class people and people
in the suburbs, people that have stayed in the city and that have, that
have made a go of it. And I think that's why, why for the first time, at
least in the White classes-- in the White working classes that Pete
Flaherty has emerged as a, as a people's mayor. He's a, he's a people's
mayor to the guy whose father was born in Poland or Germany, who at least
in the instance of Carrick, who, who lived in the Southside, and all of a
sudden he's moved into Carrick and maybe the next step is the suburbs. But
I know a lot of people don't want to go, and I think they're beginning to
feel that they're basically a part of the city. Now if you relate this to
Black people all across the northeastern United States, I think that Black
people are reaching a base of political power. Now what this metropolitan
system is going to do, is just going to. Just make their power a fraction
of what it is today. Don't you see a paradox in some people?
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Patrick: Well, if the, if the political boundaries are changed, yes. It's
going to take some doing, however, to change political boundaries. You may
get a regionalization under the current boundaries, but everything, every I
mean, not every but every time you hear the word metropolitan government,
people rise up in these little boroughs, rise up in arms because they want
to hold on to that thing. Are you saying that we're going to get
metropolitan government?
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Speaker4: Well that seems-- I don't know if the conference's point is a
matter of political boundaries or a matter of functions, but it seems one
and the same thing to me. If city functions are taken away, that means lack
of city control.
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Speaker1: Or at least initially, in terms of where the emphasis can be
placed. There seem to be several things that are suggested by your. Number
one, there really doesn't seem to be any place where systematic planning
and follow through, you know, can be maintained. Again a leaf out of
Robin's book. We need 15 years to plan the fountain down in point. It just
doesn't happen tomorrow. We need to have a lot of the studies that went
into this and follow through on it. And not only is this a problem for
Blacks, as you illustrated, but it seems to be a problem for the middle low
income city dweller, whomever he may be. Patrick: Yeah. Speaker1: And the
possibility of somehow trying to get a social political planning mechanism,
where the various ethnic groups might have a chance to communicate a little
bit and look into the future, and to think about this politically would
seem to be a very important kind of institution.
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Patrick: I think if the conference were to direct itself to that and-- put
some staff on to try to get it moving so that it does not happen
haphazardly, that in the course of the 70s that might be, it might emerge
out. I don't see the initiative coming out of the ethnic communities
themselves. I don't think that there's enough vision there.
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Speaker1: As a matter of fact, is there any, any place at all where there
is communication? I have the sense that there just really is-- not that
there's hostility necessarily. There may be this latent ability to mobilize
fears. You certainly seem to have the sense that, that is a [??], though
when you look for specific examples of it and you go beyond the busing
situation, it's even kind of hard. Patrick: Housing. Speaker1: Housing, to
some extent, although Blacks seem to be, as you say-- Patrick: dispersing
there. Speaker1: Yes. And they're moving kind of in the Penn Hills
direction. Patrick: Yeah. Spaker1: you see, and not really in the
Lawrenceville and other places where the chances of them moving there would
not hardly exist. So that it may not-- it may be that the suggested
hostility between these groups is really just non-contact.
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Patrick: Could be. Could be. Speaker5: Do you remember I mentioned
religion and the ministers.
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Speaker5: I see a strong emphasis is being placed on the-- Ethnic center
or Ethnic group by the different clergy. With the demise of their
membership and the turning away from the younger generations. From this,
the older minister, the older priest is intent on holding that ethnic group
together, at least to support the parish and the church. So he's putting
more of a, more of a cramp into the process of maybe getting together. And
I think he-- he may be doing this unconsciously, but I doubt it. It has to
be a conscious effort, it's part of, to hold this group together. And
that's what I meant when I asked you what part of the religious leaders as
well as the realtors blocking the Negroes and advancing into the other
section. Or, even the thought of a metropolitan plan. The Metropolitan plan
really doesn't have to negate the-- Black power structure that we're
pushing. I don't like, he said, political, that would be-- I feel that
that's, that's a paramount thing, that religious part we haven't analyzed
and looked at it.
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Patrick: Maybe we haven't looked at it as carefully as we, as we should. I
don't get the feeling that the that the Black clergy is consciously trying
to prevent the--
