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Patrick: [Laughs] And now, of course, Schweiker cannot put me off, he's
there only for the year. But I don't know what the next governor is going
to do. And as I told my son, you know, the sheen has worn off a long time
ago. I go and I enjoy it. It's something different. You know, I put up
these markers in the cities. And we we are going to tomorrow, for example,
are meeting on Wednesday morning for commission. Regular commission
meeting. We, we did meet in December or January, but we we now we meet in
March or April, May, June, July. We go up once a month. When I'm on a
couple of committees, we have what we call the Founders Award. Uh. Person
who has distinguished himself in a way that William Penn might have
approved if he were around and they call it--William Penn gave us a charter
in what, 1681? Well. I'm on the committee chairman has been served on the
committee, which is going to select the the the founder who who we will
honor this year. We'll we'll select the name and give it to the governor
and he will notify them and they'll then set it in the governor's schedule
and this person's schedule will mesh. And then we'll have a ceremony in
Washington--I mean in Harrisburg and I submitted the very first one. We did
this--start this three years ago. I submitted Leroy Irvis. I said, you
know, here's a Black man.
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Patrick: He's speaker of the House, the first Black speaker in the nation,
and so on and so on and so etcetera. Well, the committee, committee bought
it. I was not a member of the committee, so I got to submit the name. I'm a
member now, so I cannot submit a name because we agreed that's just a
policy thing. If you're on the committee, then don't submit names. But if
you're not on the committee, then you submit. But I was not on the
committee and Irvis got the award. Well, I'm on the committee this time. I
just got a letter that asked me if I would serve on the committee again.
And I'm going up tomorrow. We have our regular meeting and I'll probably be
told when the Founders Award committee will meet and we'll be going up
there sometime next month for to decide upon that person. I. Oh. Two of my
people. It's two--Fred Rogers. Fred Rogers got the award and I submitted
his name. I said, yes, there's a guy that's, you know, that's that's made
that's made a difference in the lives of so many children. So many. And
they had to agree among. Well, the next year we were in Scranton, Governor
Thorn--he would cover the award now so then the next time we made--who is
the Penn State coach. Coach, you know. You know he is the-- Snow: Right.
Patrick: What's his name?
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Snow: Joe Paterno.
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Patrick: Paterno. Yeah. Yeah. Last year, this this now is 2002, last
year's was 2001. Last year we made him--they gave him the award as well as
the Founders Award, as the person who exemplifies. And I appreciate Paterno
because he has put emphasis upon his athletes graduating. You know, most--I
should say--generally, these coaches--well I've seen figures that maybe,
maybe 35% of the Blacks graduate from college who were on the football. So
maybe 45 or 50% or maybe 60% of the Whites. So the coaches use them. But
Paterno, I've seen him. He said that you're here to get an education and I
appreciate that. I think that's--that keep your eye on the ball. That's not
winning for that. You're winning games for the for the for the school, even
though it brings in a lot of money. That's not--that's not his real job.
No, I don't know who we--around this time. I don't know. I haven't seen the
list of nominees, so I don't know what names may be in the pot, but I have
not submitted any names because I'm not, by agreement--by policy, as a
member of the committee, I won't submit names. How did I get off on that
tangent? How did I?
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Snow: Being appointed to boards.
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Patrick: Oh yeah, yeah, being appointed to boards. So I'm still there. I
don't know. No--it's just going up to Harrisburg is more of a chore than it
used to be. When I first start, I used to drive and my wife would go with
me. We'd make we, you know, make a real--party out of order. Now just
driving to the airport. And I've taken a train a couple of times [chimes
sound], but I haven't made a habit of that. But being--if he appoints me to
the board or to the commission, I will probably take it. I'll probably
agree. It gives me a chance to see my son who's who works out of
Harrisburg. I can get up there and see him and his family. I've seen them
over the years, his little girl. I saw a little girl, his little daughter
born, and she's now 15 because I've been there, what, 20 plus years, you
see. So so but I as I well, I used to drive too. I used to fly to
Philadelphia. I said I was on a meeting Saturday with Lincoln. I would fly
to Philadelphia from Pittsburgh and then rent a car and drive from airport
out to Lincoln, which is about 45 miles. But then I started complaining to
my boy, you know, getting on 95 and then getting in the right lane to get
off on the 322 and then getting in the right get off on the route one, get
on to Lincoln. Dad, you mustn't do that anymore. You know, I'm 86 years old
now.
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Patrick: Anyway, that's a long time. And this was several years ago and
they were concerned. I said, okay, so what I do now is fly to Harrisburg
and she [Ceil??] will drive me their Lincoln. Snow: Oh, nice. Patrick: What
a 70 mile drive. 75 mile drive. Well, now, now, even driving down to see my
boy in Sewickley or driving to the airport is a chore and I have to go out
to see my wife. That's 16 miles to my because as I said, she's in--she's in
Rebecca residence out there and a beautiful place. And I go out there at
least twice a week to see her. But even that going over the 40th Street
Bridge and going up Route 28 and then getting over into the right lane to
make a left onto a Route eight and then getting on Route eight and
particularly coming back into in the afternoon when the traffic it gets,
you know, and in the evening if I try to get the--honey I got to leave now
I don't want to get this you know, get into the lights and all of that is
because of my age. I, you know, I know. So what I say what I'd say that now
if the guy if he wants to reappoint me, I probably will accept. I don't
know at this point. I don't know whether I will or not. He probably will
not whoever comes in now. You who is running well for Philadelphia.
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Snow: Rendell.
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Patrick: Rendell and Casey's son. I don't know Casey's boy at all. I knew
Scranton's boy. He ran--when he ran, as a matter of fact, he came to
Pittsburgh and I said, you know, he I said, Bill, you know, let me take you
to Homewood and let's walk the streets. And then let's stop at the Jubilee
Kitchen and just let people--and the photographers will be there to see
that you really care about the poor and about the Blacks and so on, because
the word is you don't care about them. And I understand that he--his wife
said, we don't need them, you know, talking about the--talking about us and
and the kind of people that are attracted to the Democratic Party. But if
you were running for office. No. I get Whites smiling at me and grinning at
me when running for office. If they lose, then they stop. But so. But I
never met the Casey boy, so he would have no reason to to reappoint me. I
might be--I guess my ego would say, you know, disappointed. My energy, my
trying to say, you know, it'd be like coming off the school board. Really
time to come off now after eight years. Well, I guess eight years minus
one. Thornburgh, Casey and this Ridge--24 years. 8, 16, 24, that's it.
Snow: Wow. Patrick: So when I come in, they say, there he is. [laughs] I
said, Yeah, you youngsters are wrong here. Bill, how old are you? Bill
Cornell, whom Ridge appointed is 82 now, I think, and John Lawrence is 72.
I said, You are a youngster. You're 72, 72 years old. Well, that's the way.
Good.
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Snow: I was just wondering, going back to the Lawrence administration--
Patrick: What? Snow: David Lawrence.
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Patrick: David Lawrence, Mayor? Snow: Yes.
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Snow: How much pressure was he under from African Americans to pass the,
the Fair Employment Practices Commission? And then the...
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Patrick: Oh, I think he came under more pressure from the Jews, or at
least as much. Florence Reizenstein--Reizenstein school--was a civic
leader, the civic leader, certainly in the Jewish community. Rabbi Freehoff
was her mentor. She was a civil rights person who, in a sense, like Elsie
Hillman, who was not in it for anything that I could see that that
personally benefited her. You know, Florence was just a woman who was
interested in human relations. Uh, I say that because I remember going into
meetings with Lawrence with her and the respect which he--which he showed
her. Well, now, of course, Blacks were going in, but we don't have--we
didn't have the status of a Florence Reizenstein you know the. And. He
would be under that. Plus, I would suspect the fact that the Allegheny
County Council on Civil Rights, that organization was started--didn't
Truman have a report on civil rights through? Well, after the Truman report
came out, there was this group, Allegheny County Council on Civil Rights
started in Pittsburgh, and I found it here when I came. So it predated me
by by many years. They they would be they were pushing for--or the Civil
Union Council, for example. You've got to have something officially that
will handle, take care of of these kind of problems. Therefore, out of that
group, as I understand it, came the Civic Unity Council with Chris Moates
as the director, one--one staff person and his office clerk.
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Patrick: Well, now, of course, there were Blacks in the in the Allegheny
County Court of Civil Rights, you know, the Urban League, I, I think--I
don't--I do not know. Joe will not have been here in those years, I don't
think, because he was too young for that. But you would have people like
Joe, like the Urban League, and and certainly certain persons from the
community. David Daisy Lampkin, who was the Courier president. I put up a
marker for her for the--for our historical commission or 4 or 5 years ago
in front of Van School, in front of her house, which is right near Van
School on on on Bedford Avenue. Well, people like that would have been
pushing him and so he--out of the civic unit also came the FAPC. Which
evolve and oh, the Commission on Human Relations. But I don't know. There
wasn't--there wasn't a--it would have been a conglomerate. It would have
been a lot of people saying we ought to have this in the light of that
federal report, which is saying, you know, and what Governor Myrtle [??]
was saying, you know, the cut here, these well, all that all those things
were festering those years. Yeah. Yeah.
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Snow: And was there agitation, demonstrations about--in the streets to try
and get these reforms passed as well.
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Patrick: I don't remember any such demonstrations. No, no, no. There was
that. The demonstrations really came in the 60s. That's when we started
marching. Before that we were fussing, but we weren't marching. But in the
60s, that's when Freedom Corner became the place where we would congregate
and go downtown. You tell them we need men and we need men [??]. And we.
00:15:29.000 --> 00:15:36.000
Snow: And how receptive did you find the Barr administration to your
marching?
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Patrick: Joe was not--he was not--there was no animus. I don't, I don't
recall any any animosity coming out of his office. He was a good fella, I
think. Who? Oh. I didn't hear any any domineering atmosphere coming out of
the office or dictatorial powers coming out. Now, there may be may have
been these things behind the scene to which I was not privy. But, you know,
I would hear that King David wanted so and so and so and so, King David got
so and so and so. But I never hear that about Joe, Joe Barr, you know, you
take a drink and go on from there. Joe I remember him saying once we were
trying to get a tax through and I was in Harrisburg about something and
they had to raise the tax on, in the bar or something. Who's going to care
about it or 10 or 15% increase in a drink you know at a bar. And the guys
are going, they don't care about that. And he was that kind of fellow who,
who would--I don't recall anybody saying anything against Barr, that is
even in private conversation, you know. So. And I you know, I would have
picked up something if it had been in the general feeling that he was not
on our side.
00:17:09.000 --> 00:18:36.000
Patrick: Otherwise, I said I'm not part of--I never have been part of the
inner circle. Snow: Okay. Patrick: I've always been the outsider. And, and
therefore, some things insiders would never share with me. And I'm sure
there may have been some such things going on, but it, it never got to be.
Because as an outsider, when things are going on, I just felt I had to--I
had to make a noise. I can make a noise or something. And, and the other
thing, I could not be reached. I didn't have a political job. Therefore,
you couldn't say I didn't work for the Urban League. Let us say I keep my
church--as long as my church was behind me and my church was always behind
me. They put, I say they put up with me for 35 years. They were very, in
that sense, a very good congregation because the things I--some of them
joined in--the bulk of them didn't care what I did on as long as I was
taking care of their needs. If I could--if you were in the hospital and I
come before you sick and I bring communion to you, if you, your group
meets, I've got to meet with you because I have to meet you with you for my
own protection, too.
00:18:36.000 --> 00:19:58.000
Patrick: Because I don't know what your group is going to get started if
I'm not there. All right. But be that as it may, if we were, we were, we
were--we were a good match for each other because I enjoyed them and I
enjoyed my ministry on the whole, I enjoyed my--I wonder now how I
had--could do all these things. And I because I find, as I said a little
while ago, I just don't have the energy now to do very much of anything.
I'm still in a lot of meetings. I don't mean I'm, but it takes me a while
to snap back to get down. So as I said, I'm going to Harrisburg tomorrow. I
used to go up on the morning, get up and get up and get the plane out and
go to the house because the meeting is at 9:30 and I can get a--in those
years you can get a seven plus flight out and get there and get to the
meeting. But I got to the point where I couldn't do that. I couldn't get up
as early as you needed to get up, do something here on Tuesday night or
Wednesday night, the night before, get out to the airport and then be of
any good and me.
00:19:58.000 --> 00:21:22.000
Patrick: By the time that I would be--by the time we'd get into the midst
of meeting, I'm too worn out. So I had to stop that. I have to go up now
and get the hotel, then get to the meeting and spend the time. I'd spend my
time like that. And I used to do that with Lincoln. I'd fly out and fly to
the meeting and, you know, busy, busy, busy, busy, busy--thinking things
depended on me. You know, your ego gets in your way, Marshall. You got to
watch that now. You're a young man. Watch it. Your ego gets in your way and
you feel this thing got to be important and I've got to be present. It'll
get along without you. It'll get along without you. Maybe, well, I guess I
didn't harm myself too much. Because if I made 86, a lot of, a lot of
people dropped off before [laughs] [chimes sound] I have dropped off when
I--I'm still around. But, you know, I know I shouldn't have let all these
things. Well, I got to be there. And yet in some cases, if I were not
there, some things would not have happened. Sometimes you have to be there
to turn the tide. Sometimes you don't. You've got to speak when others are
silent.
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Snow: Can you give an example from the school board?
00:21:26.000 --> 00:23:30.000
Patrick: Well, this Flaherty thing, for example. The Flaherty thing, whose
whole school board heard him get up, he was the mayor and the place was
crowded and we are there. And he comes in and he's not on the agenda, but
he gets permission to speak. And then he speaks to the--he speaks to the
crowd and speaks against the, an action. And we are sitting there, 15 of
us, and everybody is silent. You know, the president should have taken him
on, should not have allowed that kind of thing. But--and I don't remember
who the president was, I don't. But, you know, if you were the mayor, you
have tentacles. All over the city. You don't know where. Where are you
going to be needing this guy, you know? You know, but, I've never needed
anybody. He can't do anything, anything for me in the presbytery because
he's a Roman Catholic. I'm a Presbyterian. He can't take my job away from
me because of a three way contract: the presbytery, the congregation and
Patrick. Snow: Right. Patrick: Only the presbytery could put me out of that
church. That means--and it has to be for cause. Well, if the congregation
is behind me, what can the presbytery do? So. So maybe. Maybe I do not know
this to be true. I'm deducing now. I'm just speculating. Maybe that was the
reason people sat there silent because I wondered whether I should say
something. You know, I'm not the president of the board. I'm just. You
know, that year I was--I was just. They were sitting, the board was sitting
here and I was sitting over there.
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Patrick: I can't let this guy get away with it. So I said it and the
people booed me. But my people back there come up from congregation and
thanked me for it. And I don't--this comes to my mind vivid, but other
things, but I can't remember at the moment where, you know, where I have
had to say something to to to make a difference in the meetings because I'm
in so many meetings. I'm still a member of the Peace Commission. I've been
there 30 plus years since that founded. I'm a member of the. Well,
Wednesday I have a meeting with Womanspace East, for women who have been
domestic violence women, member of--been there about 20 plus years. I'm a
member of the Allegheny North--Allegheny North Housing Project up on
Brushton Avenue, up Brushton, Frankstown, Brushton Avenue housing project
up there. I'm a member of that board. And I--I don't say I don't say these
things boastfully, because I've been with them and I have a well, I have
well, I've been a member of the Lincoln board, as I've told you, since '72.
I was appointed by Shapp as the first Commonwealth trustee when Lincoln
became related to the state. Lincoln, Penn State, Pitt, and Temple are the
four state related schools. Lincoln, the little school over here. And I was
appointed the first trustee. Commonwealth trustee. You know they set up is
that the governor appoints for senator appoints for and the house appoints
for. I was the first one that Shapp appointed. He and I were good friends
because I supported him. He made Delores Tucker his secretary of the
Commonwealth.
00:25:55.000 --> 00:28:04.000
Patrick: Then he fired Dolores for some reason. Dolores is a good friend
of mine and I, Paul said, we need. We need, we need, we need to protest
this. So we got some people in Philadelphia and people in Pittsburgh and
went to Harrisburg. And I sat on the, on the steps of the Capitol and said,
we're not going to allow this to happen. Cuss Shapp out. And the next day I
got a letter from Shapp thanking me for my service on the Lincoln board.
Well, I was off the board. Then we had that three types of persons
Commonwealth trustees. Alumni trustees and university trustees, he made me
a university trustee. So I've been there ever since. Ever since. But I'm on
I'm on these, these, these boards. And I'm in the Masonic fraternity and
that makes the Blue House and the Chapel of the Blue House. So I must go to
the meetings whether I want to or not. And I'm a Shriner. The Shriners gave
me a banquet. What? This is 2001, I think it was. Was it 2000? 2001. They
gave me a banquet and the at the YWCA there in Homewood. They came out and
said, What a fine fellow I was. Just October, my fraternity, I'm a
fraternity man from college. Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity gave me a banquet
at the--the--over here at the University--Frick Art Museum at the
University. And they and then gave a reception for me and told me what a
fine fellow I was, you know, and all these people saying these things. And
I'm looking my usual, Oh, don't say that, don't say that.
00:28:04.000 --> 00:28:06.000
Snow: [Laughs]
00:28:06.000 --> 00:29:50.000
Patrick: So I get to--I get to those those meetings as I can, and. I just
were asked by the president to chair a committee to write the Black pastors
to see if we can get them to send some names to me of youngsters who might
be interested in going into the ministry because half of our Black churches
are without pastors. There was a time when we go into the pastorage as I
said, or into medicine or into teaching. We can go into any field now, not
in large numbers. But our brains are going into these other fields, you
know. We--I have a couple of fellows who one was at Westinghouse,
Westinghouse. He got a nice golden parachute when they let him out. Another
one who was with Heinz, 57 varieties, Heinz and he was a president--a vice
president or something and then they administration changes he got a nice
golden parachute. So we are in all these places now. We are we are in some
of the law firms around the city, not many, but we are in some of them. So
the kids are not going through the ministry because it doesn't pay any
money and you've got to put up a lot of stuff. Now, my temperment allowed
me to do this, but a lot of temperments, you know, is what allowed them to
get an MBA, you can have a job. I'll tell you what to do.
00:29:50.000 --> 00:29:51.000
Speaker3: Oh.
00:29:51.000 --> 00:31:24.000
Patrick: Joe Blow thinks he knows. And maybe he does know. But you
do--let's listen to Joe Blow. And then you go and do what you want to do.
Right? Now, my point is, so I'm asked to chair the committee and I'm
process of sending letters out to ministers who if they can identify the
young people, then we can get the church that is the Presbyterian Church
behind them to sort of help them along and so on and so on. Well, that's
something new that I just--just take it on. And you saw this Henry Highland
thing? Snow: Yes. Patrick: Two years. They gave me the first award. The
first time they had a meeting, they got to have you. I had to be there. No,
I got there yesterday. I was late because I gave Sunday afternoon to my
wife and I can't get to a 3:00 meeting. I, you know, I have to give her
this time, but I got there by four about 4:00 and come to sit in the front,
you know, honor me. All this feeds the ego. You know, I must be important.
These people clap because I've come around. They said to me, well, if you
you have that and a dollar and a half, I'll get you a cup of coffee. You
know, you sort of try to keep things in perspective and then you won't--it
won't--you won't be disillusioned along the way. And to some degree, I've
tried to keep things in perspective.
00:31:24.000 --> 00:32:24.000
Snow: Excuse me a moment. [tape ends]
