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Antimo Bagnoli: Then every photograph on the top. And it's a little book
as as a step on the side and the rest it's divided into. And go to the
doctor. They check them up. Then the patients are signs of their step. Take
it off and the doctor sends me in and gets this money, goes to the
drugstore and another little book I take it to stop off, sign it and the
drugstore to get some money. Not a cent go to the hospital. Not a cent.
Yeah, I just got the bill for Medicaid. I went up to $1,818.80 every three
months for me and $18.80 for my wife. It was a 36 or 37. 20. Yeah.
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Interviewer2: And you can't afford not to have it.
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Bagnoli: If Italy came up a lot in the last half of the war, it's
industrialized a lot now. Oh, but still compared to the United States is
Italy is a poorer country now. If Italy can afford to do that, the United
States could afford to do it better. But they won't do it. Yeah.
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Interviewer: How many people you think come in your shop, understand this?
Know that countries like Italy, Germany, other other European countries
take care of their people. Bagnoli: They don't.
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Bagnoli: They don't understand. Now, Sweden is the best. Yeah, Sweden is
the best. They really take care of their people over there. Then all over
Europe, like I said, they get sick after a certain age, you know, not
everybody after that don't. If it's 60 or 60 or 65, that I don't know,
don't cost you a cent. Get a good pension. No doctor bill. No drug bill. No
hospital bill. Major operation don't cost you a cent. Nothing. Not a cent.
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Interviewer2: When you were talking before about people coming to you
because of a notary. Do you have a lot of people who come to you for advice
on things? You know, because you.
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Bagnoli: Well, as I said, I deal mostly with Italians and it isn't there
isn't very much, you know. Because it's another another thing that I notice
that the talents don't come over here anymore. Before back in the 30s and
even early 40s, they used to come over here all the time. Now they don't.
You don't see no Italians here now? Yeah.
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Interviewer: What do you think that is?
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Bagnoli: Well, as I said, the industrialized Italy a lot.
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Interviewer: Rapid [unintelligible]
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Bagnoli: Factories all over and it's still building them. Still the
building. The only trouble in Italy is the political situation. There was a
communist in a hell. Moscow got the eyes on Italy and spent some millions
and millions of rubles to. Ferment the unrest and take these younger kids.
They teach them how to put the fist in the air. They think there's somebody
in an air raid. And that's the trouble with Italy. It's the political
situation that's not stable at all. But otherwise they try and they try and
industrialized. Oh, my gosh. Factories all over. Big too, big factory. Not
the little ones. Yeah, I understand. The ones are going to come over here
now. They think that they haven't in. Contact with the United States
government to put a big factory. Mount Edison is to be montecatini. It's
all a chemical, big chemical factory. And then they merged with another.
Another factory. There used to be northern Italy, they call them. Thomas
Edison makes all a lot of electrical stuff and so on and so forth.
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Bagnoli: And they merged and there was a big one. And they wanted to put a
plant here. I read not long ago, but a couple of months ago. Of course,
they come over, coming over now. Germany is going to put a workers wagon
plant here. Japan is come in in Buffalo. They're going to open a plant in
Buffalo. See, they have the money in the sand. And like in Italy with other
unrest. And I don't know if the communists are going to take over some of
these days or not. They trying to get out. And here is a stable country.
Politically, it's a stable. So they figured if they can establish a plant
here, they're safe. But otherwise, if Italy were to stabilize, they had a
strong government to go to town.
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Interviewer2: When people came. When Italians came here. Uh, to Bradford.
Did they get any help from, like, the Italian clubs? Would they give people
any help getting settled?
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Bagnoli: Well--
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Interviewer2: Who'd you have to depend on?
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Bagnoli: Well. When they first come over back in probably 1890s, when they
really started, you know, they were all by themselves. They were they were
laughed at because they couldn't speak English. And of course they had to
get the job as they could. Then about 1900 or 2, they got fed up with that.
And the organizer of the Stella. Which is a simple street now. It used to
be on Chestnut Street. The organized all Italian society. And I started
demanding the things, you know, of course, then they had night schools. You
know, they're larger than a lot of Italians and they used to pay for the
funeral, pay for sickness.
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Bagnoli: And they still do, not the funeral. Well, no, not the funeral
anymore, because at that time, $100, you going have a funeral, 100, 120,
$120 now. But they pay $200 a month in case of debt and they paid sick
benefit. And that way I got organized and got a little bit more respect. I
started getting a strong politically. I started speaking a little bit
English, you know, going to school and associating with other people. And
finally they started going up a little bit. But. If they didn't organize it
the way they did, you would have got anywhere.
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Interviewer: So you think the lodge was the most important.
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Bagnoli: Oh, yes. Oh, absolutely.
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Interviewer: Well, you mentioned politics. What-- What kind of politics?
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Bagnoli: Well, it was a Republican. It was a Democratic. Don't make any
difference. But they started to make them feel their weight and the sin
they would have say, for instance, a candidate would have come in, lodge
and says, well, we want you to vote. Oh, I'm on it now. Hey, we got to do
something for the talents here. Well, you got to do something, you know,
speak to the people and treat the talent the way human beings like a human
being. You know, they used to.
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Interviewer2: And then about when did the lodge start to become effective?
About what year.
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Bagnoli: 1902.
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Interviewer2: That early?
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Bagnoli: Yeah. Now I see we're going to celebrate that next year, the 75th
anniversary. So we're going to have a bigger dawn here in town. Yeah.
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Interviewer: Diamond. Diamond anniversary, right? 75.
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Bagnoli: 75 anniversary. We celebrated the 50th anniversary in 1950 two
inches the auditorium. A Catholic San Bernardino Auditorium. It was a big
affair. Big. I'm telling Italian, it was a big affair. I was in the papers
all over there. So, you know.
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Interviewer2: When did Italians themselves start getting into politics
here in Brantford, you know, running for office? Well.
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Bagnoli: As I said at the beginning, they didn't know how to speak. They
weren't another thing that a larger Danish pardon me, they start organizing
a citizenship classes. It would send them to school or get the teacher in
the school, in the lodge or the teacher in a little bit English. And then
it started making them a citizen, an American citizen. And as soon as they
start to get an American citizen, they start getting into politics.
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Interviewer2: Who was about the first one. You can remember being elected,
the first Italian, you know, being elected to some job like city council
or.
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Bagnoli: Something like that. Well. It was about 20 some years ago when
Walter Peoria was elected the councilman. Yeah, because, uh, even even
before the strongest they were were still kind of disorganized, you know,
politically. They were manipulated a little bit by the few, few followers,
you know, that they would drum in their own way. Give me a few dollars, you
know, to organize a tent, let's say, for a Democratic or for a Republican.
But then they began to figure, well, it's time that we start getting in.
And then, of course, they started. The World Bureau was the first one. Then
we had Ross mayor, then we had the mayor. And now they begin to understand
the Italians and not as dumb as we thought they are, you know. And after
all.
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Interviewer: You know. Do you mind if I ask you? Yeah. This may be a
personal question. Maybe you won't want to answer it. It's something I've
wondered for a long time, you know, since I've known you over the years.
Why didn't you get involved in politics?
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Bagnoli: I was asked three times. I don't want no part of it. Because not
that I want to say. I'm a man, that I want to see things done right. I want
to see things straight. I told one fellow, I said, We run you for
councilman. I said, Listen, if I run for councilman, the fire is going to
come out of that floor in city hall, because when you do crooked things,
you're going to hear me holler, Oh, well, let me out.
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Interviewer: Well, that's what I mean. You know, I. I know that you're
this way. You know, an honest man. You want things, right? And you believe
in things being done right. And a lot of people respect you. And, you know,
I can see you getting a lot of votes. If you had been. Yes.
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Bagnoli: I was asked three times what you just I don't know. I don't have
anything to do with it. No.
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Interviewer: You felt that you'd have to compromise too much.
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Bagnoli: And I can't compromise when I see things are done crooked, I
can't compromise. My conscience won't allow me to do it, that's all. So in
order not to cause all that rumpus, I said, Well, yeah.
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Interviewer: Do you think that in a small town like Bradford, in order to
be in politics, you can't be your own man?
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Bagnoli: No, you can't. I got to work with the chief in the first place.
And for the good of the party and all that. And. No, I never wanted to get
involved. I wanted me to run not long ago. They wanted me to run on a
Democratic ticket for councilman. I said, I don't think I'll do it.
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Interviewer2: What are you. Could I ask this? Are you. Do you register as
a Democrat or Republican? Republican?
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Bagnoli: Of course. You can switch anytime you want. That doesn't make any
difference, you know.
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Interviewer: How about during the Depression? What? Republican during?
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Bagnoli: Yes, I registered. The Republican. Never changed. Never changed.
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Interviewer2: Did. This is just the question. I don't know if you remember
it, but Roosevelt was in for such a long time, Democratic administration.
Did that have any effect on local politics? Because this is such a strongly
Republican.
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Bagnoli: Yes. Yes, I remember. In a lodge, in a Stella lodge. We had 3 or
4 fellows there. That originally were Republican. Then they turned to
Democratic and they tried to organize, not to organize. They tried to
switch all the Italians in the lodge to the Democratic Party because it was
it's like when it comes a flood, you know, Roosevelt was a flood.
Everything was for Roosevelt, you know, So. They tried you know, they
talked and talked and talked to the members of the lodge. And I was
wonderful because I never liked Roosevelt anyway. I didn't like what he'd
done, especially internationally. He crucified Europe. That's all. He gave
Europe,Europe to Russia. And they said, You done right. They don't mention
it. Don't mention Roosevelt to a Polish or a Hungarian or a Czechoslovakian
or a Bulgarian or Romanian, or they'll kill you because he wanted to say
the air. The wider Europe and Russia take us a half. Since then, Roosevelt
is a devil for me, and I was the one to say the hell with him. I voted the
way I feel. I want to vote and I won't vote for Roosevelt.
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Bagnoli: I'll tell you that. And many Italians there in the lodge, the
same thing. So they tried. They tried. They still and they didn't go
anywhere. We had a. We sold. The building on Chestnut Street, the larger
building for $17,000. And then we moved in this building and it belonged to
another lodge. Regina Elena. They build the building and couldn't pay for
it. Well, I was the one that organized the merger. And let us say not. I
merged the two large. I said we're all Italians. There's no use having it
too large. That can make one. So when we merged, we had a. Ah, that's of.
$19,000 a net building to pay yet so. The Democrats in this town are
telling Democrats what they've done. They talked with the Democrats in this
town and they abolished their debt. They made it good. In other words, we
didn't have to pay. Not even a cent? It was nice. An account of that. They
want everybody to vote Democrat. They were still well, some did, but the
majority didn't.
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Interviewer: Kind of buying the vote?
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Bagnoli: Yeah, buying the vote. That's all. In fact, I know one fellow. He
had a quite a mortgage on his house and he was always a Republican, so he
switched to Democratic and abolished the mortgage on his house. He voted
Democratic, though. That was all right.
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Interviewer: The city council. Was it-- was it Democratic at that time?
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Bagnoli: No, I don't think so.
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Interviewer: Probably all the mayors were.
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Bagnoli: Well, probably they were mixed now. I don't remember that. Some
were Republican, but who the heck was the mayor? 1930. I don't know if it
was Ryan or Ryan has always been a Republican.
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Interviewer2: Ryan was 36. I know.
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Interviewer: Thompson was mayor early, 30. 32. Bagnoli: Who? Interviewer:
Thompson.
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Bagnoli: Yeah, I guess.
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Interviewer: T.P. Thompson. Was that it? Oilman?
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Bagnoli: I guess so. I don't I don't recall them now.
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Interviewer: I'm not sure, but.
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Bagnoli: I know what Degolia. Then came O'Brian, and then he came.
Interviewer2: Oh, that's right.
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Interviewer2: I this is, I'm reading these council things right now. So
in, in 30 it was Degolia.
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Bagnoli: Degolia. Then it came, came O'Brian. No, another fellow, his name
on the city there.
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Interviewer: No he was later wasn't he.
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Interviewer2: What nationality was Degolia.
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Bagnoli: French, I think was. I think was French, but I'm not sure.
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Interviewer: Well, I have a friend of mine, uh, from near Rochester.
Italian. He came down to visit me one time. Back here. And I was driving
around showing him the town in the area, and we drove through the town of
Degolia and he said, That's an Italian name. No, but this this is the town
and the mayor's name are a little bit different. The goal here ends in an a
i a yeah. And Degolia but I think it still comes from the family name
somehow. Uh huh. Do it safely. French.
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Bagnoli: I believe. Now, I'm not sure I believe it was French.
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Interviewer: The family has been here a very long time. Bagnoli: Oh, yeah.
Back in the oil stuff.
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Bagnoli: He was a cocky man. Oh, boy. He was tough. Wow. Yeah. Let's put
it up, man. Yeah, there was. There was some time there. Beautiful time.
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Interviewer: And the lodges then weren't-- weren't started from people who
came, say, from one particular section of Italy. You said before we're
all.
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Bagnoli: Well, this was still a lodge took him from every-- every part of
Italy.
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Interviewer: Not so with the market. Right.
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Bagnoli: Uh, that's, uh. That's got to be from one part of the market to
just Macerata what they call Macerata. It's a province like a McKinley
County. You got to come from there to belong to that. The No, no. North,
north east of Rome. But then there are other large or was a little friction
among the members of group of separated and organized their other large.
And add that we had three lodges there. I tried to merge them all, but
marchegiani they won't come in. But the other one. I got him.
00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:14.000
Interviewer2: How was it that there were so many people from that one
province of Italy who were in this area?
00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:38.000
Bagnoli: Well, you know what it is. For instance, I come over here, then
I-- maybe I have a cousin and we ride well. Well, I'm working here and make
a pretty good living. And when I come, I come. And they started the
communists and a brother and a cousin and the uncle and the. And they all
call them. And it's like, that's the way it is.
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Interviewer2: Did families take in people who came over?
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Bagnoli: Yes, they had a board boarding house at that time. Oh, quite a
few here in Bradford. And some had a 20 or 30. At a big boarding house.
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Interviewer2: So they would live in a boarding house.
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Bagnoli: In a boarding house until they got on their own. And then
probably they got married and had their own family. But they had quite a
few boarding houses at that time. Even before my time, I could hear them
talk, you know, so and so. She had so many people there and boarding with
her and. Yeah, yeah.
00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:18.000
Interviewer: It would have been, what, Fifth Ward? Like East Main Street.
And you mentioned Hilton Street. Forman Street.
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Bagnoli: Well, they used to, Italians used to be quite a few down River
Street, High Street, North Street. All that Section, Brennan Street, all
their section. They were all Italians there.
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:40.000
Interviewer: We'll see. When I was a boy, Fifth Ward was still mostly. At
that time. 25 years ago. Yeah.
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Bagnoli: Well, as I said, you know, you have, for instance, a friend
living on a street and there's a house for sale or for rent. Why don't you
come? Okay. And another one calls the other one. The other one calls there.
And pretty soon they're all going there. I see. I see. That's all. That's
the way it works. It's. It's the same thing all over. Only because we have
a Chinatown in New York City. You have an Italian town. You have a German
town, a Swedish town, a French town. It seems they want to stay all
together, you know? Yeah.
00:20:10.000 --> 00:20:16.000
Interviewer2: Yeah. What kind of jobs did Italians work? Just generally in
a couple of main areas.
00:20:16.000 --> 00:21:02.000
Bagnoli: Those that had a trade. They worked on a trade. The others due
mostly to language barrier. They had to get to a kind of job that they
could get quite a few working in the factories because there were so many
factories at that time. As the Silk Mill, I had two brickyards and quite a
few Italians worked there. But they worked on on railroad. That. A boss
that was Italian on the railroad called the Big Louie. Big Louie. Big Louie
was a big, big man. And of course, when they needed a man, he used to see
me walking on the street. Hey, you're working. No. Come on, I'll get your
job, you know? I went. I went to work there. I lost half a day.
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:08.000
Interviewer2: Oh.
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Bagnoli: I was. Oh, it was a month of August. The sun was hot and I was
working with my back there, drying those spikes into the plate in the ray
in the rail. Pole dome. And way out there, I would say. I used to go, Hurry
up. I said, What the hell is the matter with you? Oh, finally it seems I
heard the noise. I turned around and it was the flyer.
00:21:43.000 --> 00:21:44.000
Interviewer: You pounded his bike.
00:21:44.000 --> 00:22:14.000
Bagnoli: He was telling me, Get out of the track because he got, what the
heck would I know. First day I was there, he was telling me, get out the
track. You know, hey, I thought he was nuts, but hey, I turned it on. And
if I was comin home, I jumped on. He come over. I said, Here's your damn
hammer go by. I said, I'm going by.
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:17.000
Interviewer2: Did any Italians work in the oil fields?
00:22:17.000 --> 00:22:42.000
Bagnoli: Oh, yes. Oh, yeah. As I said, as soon as they start to learn a
language, then they branch it out, you know, because they had quite a
tradesmen, barbers and tailors and shoemakers and a few carpenters, you
know, like that. And of course if they had a trader, they found a job, you
know.
00:22:42.000 --> 00:22:46.000
Interviewer: Like with the oil companies and even some of the factories.
You think there was any discrimination?
00:22:46.000 --> 00:23:34.000
Bagnoli: Yes, it was quite a bit discrimination against Italian. Because I
say the first thing was the the language, you know. Now for a for an
Italian. The English, it's an awful, awful language because we were taught
to pronounce every letter in every letter in a in a word. You know, here I
don't hear a lot of short and that's what the Italian have that drag you
know at the end of the the word and made a fun out of it. They didn't
realize what these people are coming from another country because they
didn't make fun of the French or the Swedish or the German. They they have
an accent, too. But the Italians. Owe us quite a bit of discrimination. Oh,
boy.
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:41.000
Interviewer: But as times got tougher in the Depression, do you think
there was more discrimination?
00:23:41.000 --> 00:24:21.000
Bagnoli: Well I wouldn't say more. It was about the same. I put it-- I put
it a strangle the guy down the silk mill. Oh, yeah. Big, tall, skinny guy.
You know, every time he saw me, you guinea. Hey, you. Guinea. You want to
say, come here? I grabbed him by the throat. I banged him with the head to
the wall. I said, the next time you come over here, you will call me
Guinea. I'm going to kill you. I mean, you know, Gosh, I. That to her best
friend. Oh, hey. Hello, Tony. Hello, Charlie. Oh, that's what it takes,
huh?
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:33.000
Interviewer: Hey, give me one time. Me? This was a long time ago. But when
you first got here. I think you were on Main Street. Someone crowd of
people. I think someone insulted.
00:24:33.000 --> 00:25:46.000
Bagnoli: You know, I was talking Italian. I was a friend of mine and I
were talking Italian. And it was a beer joint across from the Holly-- Holly
Hotel on the other side of the street. I forgot what the name was, you
know, and something like that, maybe Mayflower. Yeah, that's what. Told
followers that were coming out of there in the summertime when I heard them
talk. Hey, damn it, they go. I went over there. There's another guy come
over to the place. No, no, no, no, no, no. I was strong when I was. I was
young. I was strong, stronger boy. It's a guy, this pattern place, you
know? But I said, listen, I'm a minding my own business. What business he
had to call me. Well, I said forget it. He's a drunk and it's all right.
But he kind of was with him. I picked up the wrong guy. Oh, now it's a kind
of faded out, but still, still when they get the boom, they kind of hit
you. Uh huh.
00:25:46.000 --> 00:25:50.000
Interviewer: What do you mean?
00:25:50.000 --> 00:26:31.000
Bagnoli: Well, I don't mean everybody. There's a few-- few followers that.
Uh, I don't know. I hate to say this, but because they're American, they.
They are superior to everybody. Now it isn't. So I figured that individual,
there's a good talent, bad talent. There's a good American, bad American.
So it is in every nationality. And all depends what kind of education you
have. So because in America, that means you're better than any other one.
Yeah, some Americans are good. Some Americans are better than some Italian
or some French or some German and some Germans or some French. Some
Italians are better and some Americans. So.
00:26:31.000 --> 00:26:39.000
Interviewer2: This leads me to a question. Do you remember much about the
Ku Klux Klan? Bagnoli: Mhm.
00:26:39.000 --> 00:27:07.000
Bagnoli: Yes, they used to organize. Mount Rob. Yeah. It's to burn the
cross. It's to burn the cross up in there. And they were mostly from East
Bradford here. From way down Foster Brook to way up East Main Street. And
they were mostly Swedish, German and Irish.
00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:08.000
Interviewer2: That's funny.
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:22.000
Bagnoli: Yeah. Mostly them. Well, we got organized to throw them all the
Christians. All the Catholics. We had quite a few meetings on the public
square there. Oh. Oh. And we put them in their place.
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:25.000
Interviewer: Well, he used to make speeches against the Klan.
00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:29.000
Bagnoli: Oh, yeah. Right. In public square. Oh.
00:27:29.000 --> 00:27:30.000
Interviewer2: What years was that?
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:50.000
Bagnoli: That? In the 20s? Yeah, in the 20s. 24. 25. 26. Then the Ku Klux
died right down because we were a lot stronger. They were just a few
hundred. We started organizing in thousands. Are.
00:27:50.000 --> 00:27:51.000
Interviewer: Was all through this area.
00:27:51.000 --> 00:27:55.000
Bagnoli: Bradford. Bradford.
00:27:55.000 --> 00:27:57.000
Interviewer: Did you know who they were?
00:27:57.000 --> 00:28:14.000
Bagnoli: Yeah. So we know quite a few of them. Yeah, they burned the 3 or
4 across and we told them, Next time we're going to burn the cross, you're
going to burn the cross. We're going to put you right on the on the burn
cross and the Red Cross.
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:19.000
Interviewer2: Who were the people who organized the the meetings, the
Catholic meetings like, Well.
00:28:19.000 --> 00:28:46.000
Bagnoli: I can't remember the name of were to one fellow. I don't know
where he came from. It came to Bradford. And we add them up in the lodge.
Then there was another man. But I can't remember their names, though. The
two leaders. Uh huh. One was real bright, right? Bright man. He could speak
up or he could speak. And this other fellow from Bradford and I can't think
of their name now.
00:28:46.000 --> 00:28:47.000
Interviewer2: What nationality were they?
00:28:47.000 --> 00:28:53.000
Bagnoli: I don't know. I don't know. We didn't care. We didn't care what
nationality they were.
00:28:53.000 --> 00:28:54.000
Interviewer: But they were Catholic.
00:28:54.000 --> 00:29:15.000
Bagnoli: They were Catholics. They were Catholics. Oh, we got organized
strong. Then the women wanted to come in. Oh, boy. No getting in trouble.
Now, are we going to get in trouble? But it was it was a big organization.
Really big organization.
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:18.000
Interviewer2: Where could I find out anything about that? Would that be in
the newspaper at the time?
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:24.000
Bagnoli: If you find some newspapers, yes, you would. It should have some
older newspapers here in town or.
00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:29.000
Interviewer2: They have newspapers on microfilm in the library going all
the way back? Bagnoli: Yes. Yeah.
00:29:29.000 --> 00:29:31.000
Interviewer: This would have been what, 25.
00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:37.000
Bagnoli: In the 20s now.
00:29:37.000 --> 00:29:38.000
Interviewer2: That's interesting.
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:42.000
Interviewer2: That's funny. That's a first. The first time I ever heard of
anything like that.
00:29:42.000 --> 00:29:45.000
Interviewer: Oh, yes. I had never heard of this either. Yes.
00:29:45.000 --> 00:30:15.000
Bagnoli: Yeah, I think they either even had a couple of parades. Uh huh.
The Klu Klux. Klu Klux. With a hood and all. All dressed in white with a
torch. Mhm. Yeah. Then they didn't, they didn't do it anymore. Yeah. They
want to eliminate all the Catholics. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Oh they want to
eliminate the Catholics because if they want to eliminate you.
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:21.000
Interviewer: Well this had been before, uh, Al Smith ran for president in
1928.
00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:23.000
Bagnoli: I think so, yeah.
00:30:23.000 --> 00:31:23.000
Interviewer2: In the campaign, in the election of 24, the Democrats had a
big.
