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Dr. Pauline Reinkrant: And the others are paid to move. Like for instance,
all of this in hospitals that are paid a miserable salary. But what should
really happen is to set down medical doctors. Medical doctors don't need to
make 50, $60,000 a year. Well, how do people in the industry get it? But
how many are there who are really in the top jobs of all the great of the
big corporations? Not many either. But medical doctors, there are many. And
they all make good-- this astronomical. Maybe no, since Medicare, which you
take advantage. Informed, it does not understand that. What is fighting
for, if I understand correctly, is to adjust academic people to the union,
to to the union salaries. Unions can limit income. Just like in England is
one. Like New York City is one. I have a friend in New York City whom I
have known since high school days, and there's always some frictions
between us already, although there are no reasons. Right now we are again
at loggerheads. She wrote me a funny letter which I have to answer. Then
she became eventually a librarian in one of the city colleges and retired
some years ago. Has $1,000 pension. $1,000 pension. A librarian, mixed with
Social Security and some money she gets from Germany. But this room, this
room is all this high pensions.
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Reinkrant: The labor unions put it through.
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Reinkrant: And foreign funding is outdated. You know I cannot do it
anymore. What should really happen is that unions should be a little bit
contained in their-- in their demands for money. Like, for instance, the
paper yesterday said the Postal Service again is a very big situation they
have-- they have some billion dollars of debt. 80, 85% of the income of the
main goes for employees and mailmen have an average pay of 13 and a half
thousand dollars. Who among people in Duquesne University have this type of
salary? When I do equate academic standards with unions, these union
standards is an outgrowth of the materialism of this country. We think that
money makes people. When I, when we came to this country in 1943, I had
enough money or borrowed the money to go back to school. I went to
University School of Education, for my master's degree and my certificate
from Western Pennsylvania and I remember so well a professor in education,
a very interested men who at the time was called the pinky because he was
not an outside, he was a liberal. You called them Pinky. And in one of his
discussions, one person also said, well, we teachers are paid less than
garbage collectors and said, why don't you become a garbage collector? This
is a free country.
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Reinkrant: So there must be something else to be an academician than the
money. What just can sustain the union. But who wants to be garbage
collector? Now isn't that the correct answer. Beth Strasser: Mhm. Right.
Reinkrant: There's something in the academic way of life that compensates.
And if you put it all into the material side of side of high salaries, you
just [??]. And all the middle class is disappearing. Academic, highly
educated middle class is diminishing. They don't have enough income. I
agree. I agree to this wholeheartedly. Although we never had a very high
salary, but neither private nor myself. But by working alone for 25 years
and saving a little bit every month, we succeeded after all this damage
over offences. I agree that the people who I mentioned before his
architect, architect parents went on a cruise in the Caribbean. They said
these cruises are sold out for a year ahead of time. Who goes? The highly
paid union members. You see. Now what we call educated people. They can
afford it. Middle class can afford it, but they are not going to succeed in
getting the same salary. Because it's disastrous. What organized union
members get. Although it's all too--
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Reinkrant: And if it ever to be, um, to be a chief just doesn't exist, I
guess. And I think. $9,000 to start out with. And one is out of, of college
and one is about 21 years old. It's a fair salary. We, not many-- well,
it's a fair salary. Of course, American life is so full of consumer goods
and everybody wants to solve it. So people getting into debt to get it.
It's all very complex. As long as people do not learn to live within their
income, there is no hope for the economy. And this is really-- I remember
so well on television, Christmas Tree and the woman opening her Christmas
packages. There's a wonderful fur coat and she puts it on. It's all the
joy. And somebody in the background raised the Bank of America card. That's
not paid for. Well, that's wonderful. Wonderful surprise to get a-- not
that it would ever be my ambition to have a fur coat. I don't care for
much-- I don't care at all for it. But that's a, that's a cancer in
American economy is tremendous credit. In Austria as far as I know one can
credit only debt as a mortgage and a house or the payment on a car, but
otherwise you have to pay cash. This is country can. You can charge a quart
of milk if you want to. Mhm. And this is. This is terrible. This is
terrible. In England, of course England was on the way down for many
reasons. I know. She's been very [??]. But the real disaster after the end
of the First World War was that Labour had the majority. All right. They
had justified demands of the emancipation when there were too much of these
demands. And after all, the economy of this country, cannot carry these
high wage. Only now there is some moderation. Now the Labour-- the Prime
Minister-- I forgot what was his name.
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Reinkrant: Has succeeded in containing Labour. In the Windham County, the
more they do. I was very much to the left and I was always a social
Democrat. I was never-- I never really believed. We all believed in this
part of our government. But this time I'm not going to vote for [??] who
was democrat because they have demands of [??] but where is it going to
come from. So a deficit of 35 or 38 billion. I don't know how much it
contains this year. It's in itself already fantastic. But indoors, even
higher social appearances and higher higher wages and higher rates and
higher debts. This version is supposed to. Strasser: The Great Depression
in the 30s had an effect on almost everyone. Can you say what it's effect
on you was?
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Reinkrant: Terrifying. This brough Hitler in. When the First World War
ended, of course, I was already a teenager, and we went through tremendous
inimaginable, poverty, middle class in the first place. But everybody was
hungry and cold and we suffered. We suffered terribly. But the allies left
us to stew in our own use and didn't do anything for us. So the Americans
could get the upper hand. And thare was a permanent civil war. After 1918
between the communists and radical socialists and the Conservatives. There
were always. You cannot--
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Reinkrant: Imagine the atmosphere in which I grew up, always this fear of
civil, of civil war. And of course, all the rights got the upper hand in
this whole story because Hitler was no socialist. He was no communist. I
don't know what he was. He was a satanic figure and he just got tremendous
vengeance because of all these terrorists. Now, the shape in which the
German and the Austrians are. So of course, they had a great deal of he had
a great deal of partisans who said, who thought he could--
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Reinkrant: Really do something for them. It was terrible. It was
inimaginable what it did to Europe, this depression. Irreparable.
Irreparable.
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Reinkrant: That's why after World War Two, they conceived of the so-called
Marshall Plan. Millions of money went into the rebuilding of Europe.
Germany-- to Germany, to Austria, to France. And the Germans are tremendous
industrious people and really set their shoulders to work against. And they
did the most of the Marshall Plan to rebuild Germany a wonderful place. So
they got the American money to put it to good use. I don't know whether,
you know, the Marshall money was put to such good use in France because
when we went to France in 1939, when we had to leave Austria. We went to
settle in Besancon. And there the damages of the First World War were not
yet repaired. So, Germany, Austria ___________________ [??] flourishing
countries. You couldn't imagine how well people are there. How well-off
people are there.
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Reinkrant: It's a real-- the middle class is really the most important
part of the people, and all they pray to is that nothing may change because
they are surrounded by Russia on all sides. They are surrounded by Russia
or a satellite country. So they are always in great danger. Like a sore
throat into Russia and the spheres of influence. And anytime the Russians
decide to step across the Austrian border, which is only a half-- a half
hour's drive from Vienna to the East and some one hour drive to the North.
[??] can be upset. This was tremendous. They saw the mistakes they made
after the First World War. The places we had to abandon. It's too awful to
imagine. And Americans want to tell me that your depression was terrible.
It could never have been so terrible as it was in Austria. Becuase there
was [??].
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Reinkrant: You sold everything in the United States. Whatever, not even
apples to be sold. I was a little, tiny bit better off than my remarried
and very ill mother with four young children. I couldn't help her very much
because I didn't. I'd have to share with her. So of course it's not
exactly-- what she wanted was after my father's death and I was only
eighteen, was to move in with her, because my father had an education. And
I was ten years old. And to work for the family. But my father had said in
his testimony that I was supposed to get an education. A little money was
for me and my sister's education. So he insisted I get my education. I
can't imagine what she went through, this ill woman.
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Reinkrant: She did this work sitting up 18 hours a day just to keep you
alive.
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Reinkrant: So I cannot imagine this anywhere such as in Europe. Maybe
there are pockets of such in the United States, but it was prevailing in
Austria. So that was fantastic. How can I [??].
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Reinkrant: And my sister. My older sister went through the school with
[??] The Second World War, I remember so well a letter that she wrote me
after 45 and we got in touch again. I sent packages and packages and
packages. You can't imagine what it means. Two little girls having to even
ask you for something to eat. There were no breadcrumbs. That was really
starvation.
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Strasser: Can you estimate how much you sent across to Austria in packages
to your family?
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Reinkrant: Innumerable. Because I gather clothing and once I remember I
sent two cans of cod liver oil. I got it by somebody in cans of 1 or 2
litres. I don't remember anymore. And my sister wrote to me. We drank it.
The organism was so exhausted from starvation. Just imagine drink-- to
drink cod liver oil. It was a terror if you had to take cod liver oil. Did
you ever take cod liver oil?
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Strasser: I think once.
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Reinkrant: We had to take it every day. We had to be coaxed into this,
this spoonful of cod liver oil. And they drank it and they cooked it just
as the same phenomenon. You had this older brother who was [??] for one
year, and he always had the tendency to be so terribly thin, just skin and
bones. He's the only surviving person who lives there. He lives in Israel.
_________________________________________. So this was our fate all our
lives. If we always had to manage to spoon them. ________________________.
And when he came out, he was one who would never touch anything fatty like
bacon, for some reason. So if there was the slightest fat on his meat, he
cut it off. So he was his [??]. When he came from Buchenwald, he swallowed
pieces of bacon. The whole pieces of it. He's just swallowed it. He didn't
look very much different than him from before because one could not weigh
less and be skinnier than he was when he ate. And it's amazing that he
survived. But I never forget how he swallowed up these pieces of bacon. I
think we all-- he needs the bacon. So that was-- that is how things,
Americans. I could not be able to understand if I hadn't seen it written
about. Oh, I didn't--
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Reinkrant: see my sister swallowing cod liver oil. Just drinking
glassfulls, but somehow without all the meaning was so deprived of [??].
That was something. Or once, it was the first time in Vienna. I knew, as I
did as much as I could. I sent very little money this time and I went to
Europe because Eva wanted to go and I couldn't see him. The girl said this
was one of his European ideas going over his head to Europe. So I went
along. But she went to summer school and I lived, it was in Vienna. I know
all these [??] so I bought them 1 or 2 pounds of honey and brought it to
them. They ate it. They were still [??]. They added it. They did not spread
honey on bread as we use. No. After one day it was all eaten. Because the
cost of it was so drastic.
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Reinkrant: My sister was really ill all her life. She was [??] of the
Second World War. She would never have died. She was much younger than I.
She died in '73. She couldn't endure this war, and then the starvation.
Because she was a little girl when the First World War and had to go to
work at the age of 11, because she couldn't get in schoo;
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Strasser: Uh, could you tell me what synagogue you belong to and how often
do you attend?
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Reinkrant: Well, you just don't belong to a synagogue. I belong to Rodef
Shalom Center. Because the children went there for Sunday school. But then
I decided-- we decided to quit because it's so very expensive. Let me say
so. I could have been wrong. But my husband had always reservations because
to belong to this church organization it's not only membership,, but it's a
fraternity. This is the whole thing to do is count as a special
contributions on high holidays. Your parents know. You probably belong to a
Catholic church, but the demands are very high. If they need it I can see
it. But you couldn't see it.
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Reinkrant: So now we left the congregation and I was sorry. When we tried
to be members of the Liberal Synagogue on Forbes avenue which is called
Temple Sinai. It was the same matter again of ever so many contributions to
be made. But it was not only this. It was difficult over there. They had a
main service Friday night and if one has no car, just one cannot go to
church. It's impossible. One cannot always take a taxicab because it's
expensive. So we also left this organization. We don't belong to them. But
I'm sorry we ever left Rodef, because now we would know a few people and I
don't [??]. After all I don't feel it's the most important thing in our
lives. I do not care too much--
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Reinkrant: Because I have a comfortable home. I can do my most beloved
occupation to read. You don't belong to any place. I belong to all kinds of
Jewish organizations. the [??], The Hadassah, The Jewish Home for the Aged.
I don't know how many contributions. I do not count them anymore, these
contributions. As soon as we think we have paid up one, another comes. But
I just wasn't careful enough to be a little selective not to be in one of
the organizations. It's nearly impossible. Because there are so
disappointed if you do it.
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Strasser: Could you say what the role of the rabbi was? Reinkrant: What?
Strasser: What the role of the rabbi of Rodef Shalom.
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Reinkrant: The role? What do you mean the role?
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Strasser: The role.
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Reinkrant: Oh the role. In my life? Well it was Dr. Freehof, who's
probably known to all over the place. He was a brilliant scholar, brilliant
speaker. He did explain to me Judaism, because I was having children, so I
didn't know too much about Judaism before. And I owe him a great deal of my
insight in a religious-- in the religious sense, but I don't [??]. Now
there's a Dr. Walter Jacobs who Dr. Freehof trained to become his
successor. When he would retire, he retired some 8 years ago.
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Reinkrant: Of course I know what Dr. Jacobs to a certain extent, but I'm
not on terms of real acquaintanceship. I really don't know anybody who
belongs. I just know one couple who belongs to Rolef Shalom congregration.
_____________________________.
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Reinkrant: And we certainly missed a lot. But on the other hand, I really
I didn't even know how-- how to do it, this-- I relly don't know how to
manage it.
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Reinkrant: You feel safe from--
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Strasser: Were you part of the congregation during the Second World War?
Were you a part of the congregation then?
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Reinkrant: We sent our children. Yes. We were there with a very modest
contribution to make because we were new comers. But I gave it up and I'm
sorry to the very day that we did.
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Strasser: Do you remember Rabbi Freehof's reaction to the World Wars or
whether he encouraged Americanization?
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Reinkrant: It wasn't really a question he talked about. I don't think so.
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Strasser: Were you around when Rabbi Sivits and Rabbi Schilsky were having
public arguments? Reinkrant: I don't know who they are. Strasser: You don't
know who they are. Did you notice any changes occurring in the Federation
or the Friendship Club during the Second World War or the 1950s? Reinkrant:
Any what? Strasser: Changes occurring inthe organization.
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Reinkrant: No, it's always the same. The Friendship Club. We knew quite a
number of people, but since they all live in Squirrel Hill, they are
unattainable for us.
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Strasser: Did you ever save money or insurance with the Federation or
Friendship Club?
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Reinkrant: No. This is not an organization. We pay our dues. This is $30 a
year and $2 at the high holidays to put in the wishes. These are $14. And
when we go there, we have some buffet. We eat something.
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Reinkrant: I don't because I my right hand is shaking. One of the nice
things of getting old. And I can't really hold onto a cup very well without
spilling. Now we don't go.
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Strasser: You save your money then with the bank?
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Reinkrant: Sure. With the savings and loans. [??] belong to The Friendship
club here in Pittsburgh and the [??]. When you save up to a certain amount,
like 3 or 4000 dollars, they put it in a certificate because it has to get
high interest. Of course one cannot use it because it's tied down. But we
always think, after all, our younger daughter is well off, I think. They
have a very good businessman.
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Reinkrant: Especially my son in law, who is really quite a genius. One of
these Jewish geniuses in business who is not going to be very far. He'll
never be a Rothschild or one of the real ones. It has been 20 years since
they are married and they started on a shoestring. They have worked
themselves to remarkable financial services. Beautiful home in [??] with a
swimming pool and the grounds and belong to a country club. And the
children have everything. They are not spoiled, but they get everything.
Nice and pleasant for children.
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Reinkrant: My daughter here in Pittsburgh is not so well off. She has no
time during the day, although she has been teaching for years on a part
time basis. And that's her first year of full professor, but she is an
assistant professor--
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Reinkrant: And there's no tenure doesn't know from year to year whether
she gets she'll get an assignment. The husband was in the psychiatric
hospital and possibly two others. Reorganization maybe didn't do enough. I
don't know why we never talked about because they keep all this tremendous
[??].
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Reinkrant: We don't have any real relations to them. I don't know why he
is an experimental psychologist and opened his own office in the
physician's building in Oakland.
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Reinkrant: This cluster of medical buildings and invested several thousand
dollars in all kinds of machinery they use in Experimental Psychology,
which belongs to, among others, the [??]. And I don't know whether you read
anything for the organizations that exist and really
_____________________________. People they believe, to overcome tensions
which they cannot overcome themselves. We look out for all kinds of help,
for mystical things, for mechanical things. And I, only yesterday I had the
a visit of a much younger friend of mine and she is teaching Peabody High
and--
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Reinkrant: Is a really devoted and inclusive teacher, but is all out for
[??]. It didn't do much _________________. Well, my my daughter is not too
well off, but she saved up some money. But we want to save as much as
possible so we can here if she ever needs anything.
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Reinkrant: But just the idea is suggested that try to help him
financially. But I'm delighted--
