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Mrs. Morton Weissman: Uh, you say Sam was going to dental school and
Ralph? Frances Raphael: Ralph was, uh. Ralph was a very energetic, busy
person. He went to high school, and after high school, he went to work a
couple hours in Franklin's theaters. And after that, at night, he sold
papers. And in between time there was a heckler had a drugstore on 12th
Street. And he had no children. And he liked Ralph. And he says, how about
coming up and working for me a couple hours? And Ralph liked the business.
As a matter of fact, Ralph signed in at Duquesne University to go to, um,
pharmacy school. My father paid a deposit. He went in one day. And went out
the other day. He says, I don't want to be tied down.
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Weissman: Uh, well, uh, how did, uh, Sam manage to pay tuition? Raphael:
My father. My father. Weissman: Your father paid. Were both boys in school
at the same time?
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Raphael: Uh, Ralph didn't go to Duquesne.
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Weissman: Oh, that was it.
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Raphael: See, and Ralph was younger. See. See.
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Weissman: Uh, was any contact kept with the old country?
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Raphael: Yes. Yes. My father used to write-- get letters from his sister
and a brother older than him. And my mother used to get letters from this
aunt that I told you, and they used to send money to them. And I used to
when I started work, I used to send money too. I would send, not that I
want to brag about it. But $50 in 1930 was, you know what, like 150 today.
Weissman: More than that. Raphael: Maybe more. See?
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Weissman: Well, how often would you-- could you send them? Raphael: About
once a month. Weissman: Oh, that was very, very generous.
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Raphael: Once a month, because I knew my father couldn't send that kind of
money. My mother couldn't send it. My mother didn't have, uh, money of her
own. It was all in the family.
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Weissman: And, uh, this contact was kept. Until when?
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Raphael: Until the war broke out. Weissman: World War Two. Raphael: And I
have three, four receipts, uh, from American Express that I didn't get an
acknowledgement from them, so I quit sending.
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Weissman: So that's after World War Two. And you haven't heard--
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Raphael: But my mother, who outlived my father by 13 years. Um. She used
to send to the sand. And I used to--
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Weissman: And, uh, do you--
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Raphael: I don't know how many years afterwards.
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Weissman: But this is up till the World War Two. I'd say.
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Raphael: I would say up to World War Two.
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Weissman: All right, Now you belong to Temple Emanuel. Raphael: And the
Sisterhood. Weissman: How often do you attend Temple? Raphael: Temple?
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Raphael: Every Friday and every Saturday. And the last two Saturdays. I
have to be ashamed of myself. I was too sick to go. But I go to rain, snow
and sleet. And 26 years I haven't missed a Friday night except when I'm on
vacation and then too, in Toledo, Spain I looked up an old, old Schul. 600
years go back. It was just the wall on one side. But I looked it up.
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Weissman: You went there for, uh, services. Raphael: Well, there was no
services. Weissman: No services.
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Raphael: I thought I was going someplace.
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Weissman: And you also sing in the choir [Raphael: Yes] at Temple Emanuel,
don't you? Raphael: Yes.
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Raphael: I love it. I shouldn't say love it, but I do.
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Weissman: Uh, what about, uh, the role of the rabbi? How did they react to
World Wars one and two?
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Raphael: I wasn't affiliated with a rabbi at that time.
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Weissman: I see.
Raphael: See we didn't have our temple.
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Weissman: That's right.
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Raphael: Until 26 years ago.
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Weissman: Uh, how do you feel about the difference between Rabbi Zivitz
and Rabbi Oshinsky?
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Raphael: I didn't know them too well. I knew of them. I probably attended
maybe once or twice that I went into the [??] or Washington Street shul. I
didn't go there very often. Really and truly, because transportation was a
problem.
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Weissman: How did the World wars affect you as a Jewish person?
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Raphael: Well, it's a heartache to anybody. It's a heartache to anybody.
See, when you have somebody come to bid you goodbye. I knew it would never
mean anything. But when he bid goodbye to my father, he says I'll never see
you again. A very lovely person. No, I don't know whether he was a
millionaire or a rich man or whatever he was, and he didn't come back.
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Weissman: Did you hear of any anti-Semitism after World War Two? During
World War Two.
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Raphael: You'd hear it occasionally, yes.
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Weissman: In those days, do you remember hearing anything?
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Raphael: Yeah you'd hear it occasionally. That's right.
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Weissman: Nothing that--
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Raphael: But, you know, I never lend an ear to those things because I want
to show that I am going to hold myself strong and not not let that get the
best of me. See?
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Weissman: Did you ever save any money with a fraternal organization? The
Order of the Eastern Star? Raphael: No, no. Weissman: And the Pioneer
women. Do they have anything like that?
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Raphael: Uh, no. They hae something going now, pioneer Women that you can
invest in? But I. I don't. I haven't given it a thought because it was just
brought up to us just recently. And, um, I, I can't say that I even gave it
a thought because, uh, it's something that once I put it in there, I can
never take it out.
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Weissman: I think they have it-- oh, not just insurance, health insurance
and [Raphael: No, no.] things like that. They have something else?
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Raphael: Oh, I. I give them about Israel bonds. But that I know. Uh, it's
a 15, 18 year period. God, God, be willing. I hope I live to to be able to
see it mature. It's four years or five years old. I don't know. But each
year I. Each year I buy bonds. Uh, between you and I and the lamppost, it's
either my grand nephew or my nephew's name. Because I'm sure they will live
to be able to cash it in. God be willing. I hope I don't have to. You know,
that's right.
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Weissman: One never knows in this life.
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Raphael: No, no, listen, uh. God forbid if I take sick. Money gets eaten
up very fast.
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Weissman: Uh, what were the most crucial aspects of being Jewish when you
were growing up? I mean, did you have any aspects of the American culture
that came into conflict with what your parents taught you? But as you said,
the store was open Saturday. Uh, and they did keep kosher. What did you do?
Raphael: Oh, yeah.
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Raphael: My mother kept kosher.
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Weissman: Uh huh.
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Raphael: We were open on Saturday because it was my father's livelihood.
The Rosh Hashanah. Yom Kippur. The store was closed.
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Weissman: Uh, did you eat non-kosher food on the outside?
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Raphael: Not until I started to travel. Not until I started to travel.
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Weissman: You say that was when you were what? 20s, 30s?
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Raphael: No, Uh, later than that. Later than that. Of course, if I take
short trips, like to Atlantic City for two weeks. You know what I mean? Or
even to Florida for a couple of weeks. No, I'll take it back. It, uh. Uh,
it's supposed to be kosher style, but I don't believe it was kosher. You
know what I mean? And I didn't go there because I wanted strictly kosher
dinner. I went because it was a Jewish hotel. I wanted to be between my
people. And I went to a place that wasn't fancy. It was livable, clean and
answered my purpose.
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Weissman: Did the, uh, singing of Christmas carols when you went to
school, did they make a big to do about Christmas?
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Raphael: They always did. As a matter of fact--
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Weissman: Christmas and Easter.
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Raphael: I love to sing. [Weissman sneezes] God bless you. God bless you.
There you sneezed. I'm telling you the truth. I like to sing. And I joined
in and singing with them. Now it might have been the wrong thing for me to
do. I look at it when I look back now. I think maybe it was the wrong thing
for me to do. I didn't know any different because I was a child. And then
when we were when I worked in Kaufmann's and Christmas, they appealed.
Anybody who wants to join in in the Christmas Choral, a choral group to
sing for Christmas carols. And I sing because I like to sing. Now, maybe I
did the wrong thing.
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Weissman: Are you like-- Raphael: Did I do the wrong thing? Weissman:
Look--
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Raphael: We not, one that doesn't know.
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Weissman: You liked the music, the sound of it. The words didn't bother
you?
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Raphael: No, no, I didn't sing on account of the words I enjoyed. I sang
because I enjoyed the music. Until this day.
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Weissman: Uh, when you were growing up, what group of people did you feel
closest to your own?
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Raphael: I can't say that I had time enough to think of who, uh, I would,
uh.
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Weissman: Well, who are your friends? Who did you socialize with?
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Raphael: To be truthful with you, I didn't have time. If I went to a movie
or to a show, as I said, I'd take my mother and my sister, my mother. And
we went once a week. When I started work, I treated them every week to a
good movie and a good show. It didn't cost $3.75 for a movie like now. And
I have news for you now. I haven't been in a movie house. We had a fund
raising for a Jewish national fund. That's the blue boxes. About three
years ago now. I was asked to go and count the money. So I says, [??] asked
me, of all people, you have so many women, why ask me? We know you can do a
good job. I says thank you. I went to count the money I paid for my
admission. I didn't see the movie. So that's why I say I can understand why
not everybody can belong to everything. I'm a life member in the home for
the aged. I did it because I wanted to. I know they could use it. So I drip
out $10 a year, $10 a year, $10 a year. I became a life member. Pioneer
Women is the same way. See, I'm happy to say now it's it's gone up to $150
for a Pioneer Women's life membership. See, but listen, I don't pinch a
penny when it comes to doing a good deed. I feel if I want to give $0.05 or
anybody, if I go for a fundraising, my motto and my tactics to act to
people, they give me a nickel. I thank them the same way as if they give me
a dollar with the same smile because I appreciate it from deep down in my
heart. I appreciate whatever anybody can do.
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Weissman: Uh, well, So you were too busy. Did any group feel different
from your own when you were growing up? What group of people felt most
different, most distant from you?
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Raphael: I can't. I can't say that I detected.
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Weissman: Uh, has membership in Pioneer Women and Eastern Star affected
your position in the Jewish community?
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Raphael: I don't know. I guess they hold me in high esteem.
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Weissman: Has it helped your family? Uh, has it helped your business?
Raphael: No.
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Raphael: I don't think so. I don't do it in that respect.
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Weissman: What class do you identify with?
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Raphael: What class? I don't look to identify myself with the 400.
Definitely not. Weissman: Well. Raphael: And I'll tell you the truth. Uh,
I'm not saying that, uh, for, uh, to bring back memories. And my youngest
nephew married a Oscar Hammerstein's granddaughter. That didn't affect me
one iota. I didn't look for prestige or anything. The only thing I always
feel this way when I go somewhere with any member of my family, I like to
look respectable, act respectable. Ladylike. I went several years ago, they
were honoring one of the girls that were was going to get married from one
of my merchandise departments and they had a dinner and a shower for her at
the Oliver Cork bottle. And I didn't think coming home I have no
transportation. How am I going to get home? So like it was cold weather. I
had boots with me. But when I got into the dining room, I wanted to wear a
decent pair of shoes. So I carried a pair of shoes with. Coming home and
it's a snowstorm. And I get at the end of the car line and I have no bus
service. So I went to a coffee shop there next to the dentist theater and I
put a dime in and I called Colonial Club for a cab.
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Raphael: I have to spend, uh, sometimes, you know, for a cab. They didn't
come. I waited an hour, and here I'm standing. All these men sitting,
having coffee. Only woman. I don't want to be in a place, uh, by myself. At
10:30 at night, I called again. I made four phone calls, and they never
came. So I took another dime out, and I started walking towards the police
station. And I was going to give the policeman a dime, have them call for a
cab for me. I got as far as the police station and I got cold feet. Do you
know why? If somebody would see me in the police station, they'd say, What
kind of trouble is Frances Raphael in that she's in the police station?
Weissman: That's right. Raphael: I don't want that kind of a reflection on
my family. The pride and the joy that I can bring to my family means more
to me than any pleasure that I can get. And I didn't go in. You know what I
did? I walked in snow at 11:00 at night, a mile and a half to get home. I
didn't take the liberty to call my brother and come and get me.
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Weissman: An independent lady. If I had a brother I would have called him.
All right. So you said as far as class goes, I mean, would you consider
yourself working class?
00:17:03.000 --> 00:17:46.000
Raphael: I'll tell you, I, uh. I went out and earn my living. I'm mighty
proud to say what I have I worked for. I worked hard for as many a morning
when it was bad weather, I got up 6:00 in order that I should be at my desk
at 830 because I worked. I'm not. And if I was five minutes late coming
back from my hairdo appointment on my lunch hour, he'd stand like this.
You're five minutes late. And I said I went to get my hair done. And he
says, I don't care what you do. You're, you're five minutes late.
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Weissman: How many days a week did you work?
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Raphael: I used to work till 6:00 for six, six days a week.
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Weissman: Six days a week.
00:17:54.000 --> 00:18:03.000
Raphael: And if we had some reports to get out at the end of the year. I
went into work on Sunday. Oh, yeah. We didn't get paid for it.
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:04.000
Weissman: Oh, I was going to ask you that.
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Raphael: No, we didn't get paid for it.
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Weissman: So let's see the 40 hour week. What year did that?
00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:16.000
Raphael: And the 40 hour week came in. And then afterwards we went on five
days.
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Weissman: Been a big change in lifestyles.
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:21.000
Raphael: Very. Very much so.
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Weissman: Has membership in the order of the Eastern Star or Pioneer Women
affected your chances of moving to a higher class?
00:18:32.000 --> 00:18:37.000
Raphael: No. I came here, which everybody thinks it's high class, you know
what I mean?
00:18:37.000 --> 00:18:38.000
Weissman: I mean, living is--
00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:39.000
Raphael: It is high class because of the rentals.
00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:42.000
Weissman: Living here at Bower Hill Apartments.
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Raphael: Yes, this is considered high class. But I figured this way
between you and I and the lamp post when our home was sold, which was
tentatively sold in the middle of May. All leases are signed. Where do you
go and find an apartment? I went and looked for apartments. I was on the
phone three days constantly. I had my own phone in my bedroom. One day I
made 60 calls to real estate agents, friends, people that were connected.
And then afterwards, I went and looked for places. I wasn't going to have
to go through alleys to go because it would be a cheaper rent. At this
stage in life, I don't squander on myself for clothes. When I go out, I
don't have I'm not a fashion plate. As long as I'm clean, presentable.
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:39.000
Weissman: That's what counts, so.
00:19:39.000 --> 00:20:08.000
Raphael: But I had to take this apart. I had no other alternative. It was
more than I wanted to spend. Way more. I never intended to spend this kind
of money. Really. But God be willing. I'll stay well. So the few dollars I
have, so the few dollars I got out of the house, it's [??] it up with the
rent. It's [??] it up with the rent.
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:17.000
Weissman: Uh, how has membership in Temple Emanuel affected your position
in the Jewish community?
00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:31.000
Raphael: Do you know? I go to temple and I'm so unconcerned whether
anybody tries to be snobbish or whether they try to high hat in any way.
They don't concern me one bit.
00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:43.000
Weissman: Well, but I think the fact that you're a lifelong member since
Temple was founded and you sing in the choir, would you say that gives you
a bit of status?
00:20:43.000 --> 00:20:52.000
Raphael: Some people, maybe they don't say it, they don't broadcast it.
Maybe they will. You know what I mean?
00:20:52.000 --> 00:20:59.000
Weissman: Are members of Temple Upper class.
00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:53.000
Raphael: Oh, I wouldn't say they're all upper class. There may be a few.
Do you know what I call upper class? The fact that my parents come from
such good stock that the fact that my mother and father were such a nice
living people. That to me is status. I cherish that more than anything
else. The pride that I get from knowing that what I have now, two nephews,
God, be willing, they should prosper and they should keep a good name for
themselves. And I can show you. I'm mighty proud of them. And that is what
I call [??].
00:21:53.000 --> 00:21:57.000
Weissman: Do you remember anything about the old Irene Kaufmann settlement
house?
00:21:57.000 --> 00:22:05.000
Raphael: I never was in that building. Would you believe that? This new
building I was only in there twice?
00:22:05.000 --> 00:22:10.000
Weissman: Look, I mean, as you say, you were busy in the store and
everything else. Raphael: Just, just last November.
00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:25.000
Raphael: We had a meeting to go on this trip to Israel. And the meeting
was called at the Irene Kaufmann settlement. And that's how I got there.
And I was only in the Anthem House twice. That was due to a meeting also
for this Israel trip.
00:22:25.000 --> 00:22:28.000
Weissman: Did you ever hear of Anna B Heldman?
00:22:28.000 --> 00:22:45.000
Raphael: Yes. Yes, I read about her, but I never had occasion to, uh, come
in contact with her. Of course, she was a much older woman, and she did her
good deeds way before, uh, way before my time. Weissman: Uh huh.
00:22:45.000 --> 00:22:52.000
Weissman: And then there was her crusade to clean up prostitution and
gambling in Pittsburgh. Did you ever hear anything about.
00:22:52.000 --> 00:23:01.000
Raphael: I never, uh, read that. I know she was doing good work. I know
that. See?
00:23:01.000 --> 00:23:20.000
Weissman: And did you ever hear about the red light district in the Hill
in the 1920s? Raphael: Unintelligible. Weissman: Uh, do you remember
anything about the founding of Montefiore Hospital?
00:23:20.000 --> 00:24:11.000
Raphael: Well, I read about it, and years back, uh, I had a very dear
friend whose sister in law worked at Kaufmann's way before I did, but she
was there at the time. And she says, Frances, she says, you ought to join
with us in Young Ladies Relief Society, which is now the Ladies Relief
Society of Ladies-- Weissman: Aid. Raphael: Aid of Montefiore Hospital. And
that organization, which I call myself a member of, Young Ladies Relief.
They gave the first, not an ambulance. It was a not, uh, to Montefiore
hospital, see. So she was also very--
00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:14.000
Weissman: Do you remember her name?
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:21.000
Raphael: Lucille Hill. And I used to go help her. My sister, too, when
they had the baby dance.
00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:25.000
Weissman: Oh, tell me about the baby dance. I never heard about it. What
was the baby?
00:24:25.000 --> 00:25:14.000
Raphael: Jewish. Jewish baby home used to have a dance every year. The
money that they raised from the dance. Plus, Lucille was chairman. And my
sister and I used to go and help her to sell flowers. Put the mirrors, You
know, one single flower. My sister was a good looking girl. She still is. I
don't know what she looks like now. Uh, I know she hasn't been well, and
she's gotten very thin, which I don't like. You know what I mean? Because
from the paint, they paint the picture for me anyhow. Um, she used to get
$5.00 30 years ago from, uh, from a person that went to a dance and paid a
dollar to go to a dance and pay $5 for a fly.
00:25:14.000 --> 00:25:17.000
Weissman: Uh, now, this was sponsored by--
00:25:17.000 --> 00:25:21.000
Raphael: The Jewish baby home.
00:25:21.000 --> 00:25:27.000
Weissman: And what kind of a home was it? For orphans or for sick
children?
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:41.000
Raphael: No, I imagine that most, I imagine for most were orphans. Orphan
children that were parting of the ways with the parents. They still have
the Jewish baby home.
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:44.000
Weissman: I didn't know. I've heard Jewish home for the age. That's the
only--
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:47.000
Raphael: That's another thing. Weissman: Yeah. Raphael: That's another
thing.
00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:49.000
Weissman: But I never heard of the other-- Raphael: Jewish Home for the
Age.
00:25:49.000 --> 00:26:18.000
Raphael: Uh, until, uh, two months ago. I used to go every Saturday to
visit a woman that's there. And other people too. But this woman that's
there now that I've gone. She was a neighbor of my parents and the first
store they had years ago. And she's in the home for the aged. And I go to
see her on Saturday afternoon. And besides that--
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:21.000
Weissman: Do you get a ride? Couple of buses.
00:26:21.000 --> 00:26:42.000
Raphael: I have to walk up that hill or walk those steps. That's a killer.
Those steps to walk. I go and I have a friend in Negley House. I go to
visit her when I know a friend of mine is in Wightman Manor. I go to visit
them. I spread a little bit of sunshine.
00:26:42.000 --> 00:26:53.000
Weissman: They appreciate it. When you were growing up, what type of jobs
did most of the Jews have that you knew?
00:26:53.000 --> 00:27:43.000
Raphael: I don't know, really. Most people in our area were in business
for themselves right there. And those are the people that I knew. I didn't
know them personally. I didn't know them intimately. I knew that Harris had
a store up the street. I knew they had a couple of children. I never
associated with them. I didn't have time. I knew the Franks had, uh, three
boys and two, uh, two. Two boys and two girls. Um, one was a dear friend of
my brother's, and the other one was older. He was in the store and there
was two girls. I knew of them. I didn't have time to associate with them.
00:27:43.000 --> 00:27:47.000
Weissman: Well, what about the children in school?
00:27:47.000 --> 00:28:54.000
Raphael: Well, you see, there was a-- they went to a school up street and
I went to the school down street in our area. There was just 1 or 2 other
Jewish families in our block. Three Jewish families. So there was the
Selloffs [??] and there was the Sellows [??]and there was the Magasins
[??]. And down the street there was a Shapiro. When I go to the home for
the aged now, she says to me, I know you. You're a Raphael, aren't you? And
I says, Yes. She says, I know you lived on-- and I knew you. I knew you. I
didn't have time. See, I never had time to walk the street to take a breath
of air. But my father died. They didn't know there was two girls in the
family. They said we never see you on the street. We never see you
anywhere. I said, Well. You see me in the store, don't you? Yes, in the
store. We know probably we would see you.
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:57.000
Weissman: What do you think of intermarriage?
00:28:57.000 --> 00:29:02.000
Raphael: I'm not [??].
00:29:02.000 --> 00:29:07.000
Weissman: Uh, anything else that you'd care to say on the subject?
00:29:07.000 --> 00:29:49.000
Raphael: I don't think it could lead to a happy medium. Rarely. Rarely. By
the grace of God. It, uh. It can work out if they convert. It can be
beautiful. Yes. If they go along and try to live up to some of the
traditions, some not so much traditions as showing humanity towards one
another. See? Love and love and love. But there comes a time when a flick
of the tongue.
00:29:49.000 --> 00:29:59.000
Weissman: That's right. Have your views on Zionism changed? Have they
become stronger over the years?
00:29:59.000 --> 00:30:46.000
Raphael: To be truthful with you, I haven't had time all these years to
study up and devote myself and dedicate myself to Zionism. But this-- these
last few years, especially since Israel became a state. Uh, I-- that I
think in one way. And of course, um, the first time I went to Israel, it's
really sparked my interest. And I went on my own, not by myself. I went
with pioneer women. And from then on I've become wrapped up.
00:30:46.000 --> 00:31:46.000
Weissman: And we could say that you've become more--
