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Frances Raphael: Whose father had a nice big building up street. Four
blocks up. Five blocks up. And Sunshine used to was my father's attorney.
You know, sometimes comes up things that you have to take care of. So he
knew that my father had this little store. He made the suggestion to him,
Why don't you buy my father's building and make yourself a nice business up
there? It's a good building and it's new. And it was. It was a good
building. A good building. Buff brick two floors above the store was where
we lived. And my father went ahead and bought it. In the meantime, he got
rid of-- sold out and sold it to somebody in the next door to us. A
Ukrainian woman bought it. And went up street. Of course, with a jewelry
store, you have a small front. For a clothing store he made two long, huge
windows. It was a showplace it was written up in-- because we had a the
fellow that decorated our windows. Every week he came to decorate the
windows. He used to work for Bennetts on Wood Street, which was an
exclusive men's store, just like Hughes & Hatcher is now, you know Mrs.
Morton Weissman: Yeah. Raphael: So my father took him, listened to it and
talked it over naturally with us. We used to have a like a-- we had a round
table and we sat around in the evening at the store closed. At that time we
had a radio. Weissman: What hours did the store closed? It opened, you say?
Years ago. Raphael: My father, when he had the first store he used to go in
the store, 6:00. But when we went up to the second store, used to open up
9:00. Open up 8:30, clean up and sweep up. Never opened the store--
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Weissman: It opened till what time at night?
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Raphael: Till 8:00 at night. Saturday till ten. And when I was working, I
used to come home from work and grab a bite and stay in the store and help
out.
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Weissman: Yeah, well. And your mother worked in the store. Raphael: Right
with it. Weissman: She never worked outside of the home? Raphael: No, No.
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Raphael: Running up and down the steps. We had an indoor buzzer, and my
father would press the button to my mother. There's a customer who wants to
see you. And there were certain customers only wanted my mother. It made no
difference what she was doing. She had to drop her work and go downstairs
and take care of the customers.
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Weissman: And how many brothers and sisters did you have?
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Raphael: I had two brothers and one sister.
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Weissman: Did anyone else share your home, any relatives or boarders at
any time? Raphael: No boarders
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Raphael: No boarders. But when somebody came from somewhere, there was
always room on the hammock for my mother to sleep outside. And my father
slept on a wooden bench outside in the yard. That was in the first place.
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Weissman: In the summertime.
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Raphael: In the summertime. And we kids slept on the floor and we gave the
bedrooms to a couple that wanted to start in business because they came
from New York. And he worked very hard as a presser and a laundry. And a
cousin-- it was a distant cousin to my mother and also to my Uncle, that
one that recommended my father buy the store, said, Come to Pittsburgh, go
in business. Why should you slave at the being a presser in the hot laundry
or sweat your life away? I came to Pittsburgh and he was going to take them
into his house, but when he came, they came to Pittsburgh from New York.
One of the kids contacted I don't know what it was, whether it was measles
or something, he says. I don't want them in my house. Who do you think got
them? My mother. So for six weeks, we kids slept on the floor. My mother
slept six weeks in the hammock. My father slept six weeks on a wooden bench
outside. Luckily that it didn't rain hard enough that it affected them. You
know what I mean?
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Weissman: Well, anybody else that you remember? Raphael: Well, whenever--
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Raphael: The family came in from the country, it was always at our house.
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Weissman: Oh, you had family living whereabouts?
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Raphael: My mother had a sister who lived in Fayette City, which is near
Charleroi. And, uh, this uncle of mine that I speak was in McKeesport. See,
when the family came in, uh, Saturday night after the store closed, 10:00,
my mother used to walk over to Logan Street. Do you know where Logan Street
is now? It's. It was above where Fifth Avenue is now. It, you know, where
the Civic, uh, uh, uh, center is. Weissman: Yeah. Raphael: Well, up that
hill used to be Logan Street. Weissman: Oh yes I remember. Raphael: Clark
Street. That used to be just Jewish stores, food, you name it. Everything.
Well, there were Syrians there, too, but, yeah, my mother used to go 10:00
at night to buy her meat and her chickens and flour she carried because it
was a penny less a pound. You bought it over there. And groceries. My
mother kept a kosher house that I will say. Sad to say I don't want to
include it in the broadcast. You know what I mean? But you know how they
are today. But my mother kept a kosher house, definitely. See.
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Weissman: It's too much trouble today. Amongst other things. All right.
Now we're going to ask some questions. Education. You went to grade school?
Raphael: I went to high school. Weissman: You went? Which high school?
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Raphael: South. South High school.
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Weissman: And did you have any special training?
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Raphael: I took a business course. I wanted to take a-- what did I want to
take?
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Weissman: Bookkeeping, or?
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Raphael: No, I took bookkeeping-- commercial course. You know.
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Weissman: These were taught in high school?
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Raphael: Yes. Yes. Bookkeeping, typing, stenographic work. That was a
commercial course. See, I wanted to be a teacher. I wanted to be a nurse,
but I wasn't old enough to go into the hospital because when I graduated
high school, I was only 16 years old, not even 16. I graduated in June. I'd
have been 16 in August.
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Weissman: Now your first job. How old were you then?
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Raphael: I faked my age too, when I went to work. Because they won't take
you till you're 18.
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Weissman: Oh. Did you work while you were going to high school?
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Raphael: No, no I helped in the store and the house.
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Weissman: Yeah. You worked in the store and the house? Raphael: How could
I? Weissman: And then when you were graduated from high school, did you get
a job somewhere?
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Raphael: I. I stayed home for a little while, and then I went to work in
Kaufmann's. And I, uh, went in one day to town just to, like, you know,
kids do like women do. Like girls do. And, um, childish. And, uh, I saw at
that time they had a balcony and it had a sign. Sure, I think I'd like to
get a job. And I went up and they said, are you good at figures? We need
somebody good at figures. I said, I think I am. She says, okay. She
interviewed me. Come in tomorrow morning. I came home, told my father,
please tomorrow when you get up early to open the store, you wake me. He
looked at me and I said, yeah, I got a job. He laughed at me. Not that he
did it mistrusted me, you know what I mean? It wasn't a question of doubt,
But he said enough to say, when you get your first pay, I'll believe that
you go, you know what I mean in that respect? Weissman: Uh huh. Raphael:
See?
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Weissman: And uh, when did your income first start to support others than
yourself? Did you give any of your money when you started working to your
family?
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Raphael: Uh, no. No.
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Weissman: And, uh, how long were you at Kaufmann's?
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Raphael: My whole life.
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Weissman: About how many years?
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Raphael: Uh, for 40 years.
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Weissman: Well, and I can't ask you the other questions unless you did
things at Kaufmann's about good jobs, bad jobs. Any work that you did there
that you didn't like.
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Raphael: To begin with I worked in the, uh, statistical department.
Because that's just figures. That's every facet pertaining to the store.
Sales, returns, expenses, salaries that entail everything in figures. And
then they were going to have a new machine put in, which would have meant
eliminating one girl from the work that I was doing. There were two other
girls did that work, and there was another girl that was going to get
married in the import department-- was run by the same boss, the two
departments. So he says to me, Frances, he says, you know, Sadie's going to
get married. And he says, this machine is going to eliminate. And I knew
it. And of course, you know how it is. Last one hired is the first one
fired. I didn't need to use brains for that. So he says, how would you like
to work for me in the import department? I said I'll be happy because he
was a [??].
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Weissman: And what was his name? Raphael: Simons.
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Raphael: And I worked for the import department until the Depression came
along. And then I got part time work.
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Weissman: Well, we have a question about that later. Uh, any idea of what
you were earning when you first started at Kaufmann's?
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Raphael: $14 a week.
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Weissman: And, uh, about how much when you left or.
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Raphael: When I left, it was $85 a week
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Weissman: And I did forget to ask you something about your brothers and
sisters. Now, one was a dentist, and his name is.
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Raphael: Dr. Samuel Raphael.
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Weissman: And then there's Ralph Raphael. Raphael: That's right. Weissman:
Any occupation for Ralph?
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Raphael: He was a constable.
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Weissman: And, uh, Gertrude.
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Raphael: Well, she, uh, she did, uh, designing for about six months.
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Weissman: Gertrude Goldman, uh, were there-- so you were in the import
department for a number of years? Raphael: Oh, yes. Yes.
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Raphael: And then when things went bad, then I took like part time work,
job work for in this department where the merchandise comes in. And I
didn't want to, but one of the older girls, naturally, she says, take it,
she says, because if you don't take it, she says, they'll lay you off and
you lose your years of service. So I listened to her, worked for $11 a
week. And I stayed. And then he, and then he took me on as a regular.
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Weissman: Then we have questions about fraternal and reasons for coming to
Pittsburgh. Well you came because your parents [Raphael: Exactly] came and
heard. And uh, where did the people in the first neighborhood you lived in,
where did they come from? Do you remember when you were growing up and
going to school? About seven or thereabouts?
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Raphael: I don't know. I tell you, it was a mixed element.
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Weissman: You had because--
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Raphael: Because it was-- there was working people that, uh, that uh,
went, uh-- the people that my father sold merchandise to for the mill
workers. You see, the people that lived in the area were the businessmen.
There was about 75 Jewish families in the South Side at one time. We didn't
have a show for the high holidays. We used to rent the hall there, and
that's where we had services just for the high holidays. But in [??] uh,
when my father passed away, uh, which was very suddenly, even if it would
have been otherwise, the, uh, Jewish men offered to come to our home. So
my, uh, two brothers had a minyan, and they did it for about six months.
And my sister and my mother and I, we used to set a table. Morning and
night. And then got bad weather. And my oldest brother said, look, we boys
will take ourselves over to [??] or Washington Street shul, which was off
Fifth Avenue at that time. And it's asking too much for mainly. Some of
them were older people to walk in bad weather. But my two brothers went to,
uh, say Kaddish for 11 months, which is the required time. But for better
than six months, our dining room table was always set.
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Weissman: How were you treated as a Jewish person while you were growing
up?
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Raphael: Um, to be honest with you, I never. I never made an issue of it.
I know, uh, as a child, I don't think I made myself aware of it so much to
be conscious, shall I say?
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Weissman: Well, when you went to school, I mean, uh, how many kids in your
class were Jewish? Were the majority Jew? Raphael: No, Very few.
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Raphael: Very few. Very few.
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Weissman: That would be the first place that you might find any problems.
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Raphael: Very few. That I would say, not like now, when you look at it, if
you were out two days for Rosh Hashanah, they say some unkind words to you.
Uh, I don't remember whether I ever had any encounter in that respect. I
don't really remember. I'd be very honest with you. I don't remember.
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Weissman: Then any problems because of being Jewish.
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Raphael: And I'll tell you something, problems being Jewish. I never
played outside. Weissman: You're too busy working. Raphael: I was too busy.
I owned one little doll as a child and my sister went and took it and she
broke the doll. And I saved the China head and put it on the mantel as a
souvenir for the longest time. I didn't have-- I didn't have toys like they
have today. God love them. They should enjoy it and thrive on em. But if
you come into some homes and you see the toys and believe me, God should
punish me if I say it in an unkind way, but you go into the see the toys
that my grandchildren. My grandchildren. Yes, I'll call them my
grandchildren, my grand niece, my grand nephews that they have. And toys
are not cheap.
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Weissman: I became a grandmother seven months ago, so I see there's no
room in the playpen for the baby. There are toys there.
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Raphael: Exactly. Exactly. Nowadays, they have a big trunk to put when you
have to clear up a little bit to put the toys in.
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Weissman: Do you remember the first organization of Jewish people being
formed or organized or existing when you were growing up? Was there
anything that your parents were active in or that you had heard about?
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Raphael: I know back in Boston, my father belonged to an organization. He
was a member, but he didn't go to meetings because he was a home man. And
whether he worked so hard that he was glad to get home and have his meal,
take his bath and go to bed. You know, my mother used to get up at 4:00 in
the morning to go to the butcher and knock on his door. And she'd speak and
she'd say, Mr. Lapchick, it's me. And he'd say, When do you sleep? She
says, I have to do my shopping before my husband goes to work because I
will not leave my children alone in the house.
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Weissman: But weren't you living over the store? Raphael: That was in
Boston.
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Weissman: Oh, that's right. That was.
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Raphael: And we were four little, four little tots.
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Weissman: But there was no temple being formed or shul.
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Raphael: No, no, no. We-- the boys. The boys had to go to, uh Washington
Street shul for a [??], you know, to teach them Hebrew for, you know what I
mean?
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Weissman: Hebrew lessons. Raphael: That's right.
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Weissman: Before they became bar mitzvah.
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Raphael: Before they became bar mitzvah. See, as far as, uh, a must, that
they had to be bar mitzvah. At that time, there was not the fanfare with
bar mitzvah getting ready to prepare and all this fanfare like they have
now. See, it's wonderful. That's why I was so happy and anxious to join the
temple to know that children can get that. See, I didn't have it. I didn't
get one day tooting when I picked up and I go into temple and say my
prayers and I'm not bragging. I don't have to open up the book. I learned
it myself.
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Weissman: Do many of your friends belong to Pioneer Women?
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Raphael: Well, here in South Hills, we don't have too many members. At one
time, we had 92 members here. That was just before I joined. And gradually,
you know what I mean. There's so many other organizations which I can
understand. And let's face it, not everybody can afford to pay out ten, $10
for this due and this due and this due. And it's not only your $10 a year
dues. You go to a luncheon, cost you a few dollars, you go to a bazaar,
cost you a few dollars, you go to a tea and they have a display, cost you a
few dollars. I have just got done with a project and I have one more going
for Pioneer Women, which I dedicate myself to for about six months out of
the year. And I'm not through with it yet. It'll be June before I think
I'll be finished.
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Weissman: What about the Eastern Star? Did any of your friends belong to
Eastern Star?
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Raphael: Eastern Star. I used to have two friends here in, in Mount
Lebanon. And matter of fact, there's one she pleaded with me. I had a woman
that I worked with and she used to plead with me. I can't understand why
you don't belong to Eastern Star. I know you're eligible for it. And I'm
sure your brothers and all have because, you know, you have to have
somebody in your family. But, well--
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Weissman: Sponsor you.
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Raphael: Sponsor you, see. And then, of course, somebody else, a friend
has to sponsor you. But, uh. And they look into it. You are interviewed
and, uh.
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Weissman: Is this the female section of the Masons?
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Raphael: That's exactly it. See. So I kept saying to her, Jane, I'd like
to and I can. But I said to begin with, I'd have to drag myself all the way
to North Side. Transportation always was my problem. I would never open up
my mouth and say, I have to go here, take me here. See, I always depended
upon myself for transport. [audio cuts]
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Weissman: Were you ever a local lodge or a national officer of Eastern
Star? Raphael: A local. Yes. I was on to floor a couple years.
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Weissman: On the floor. What does that mean?
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Raphael: That means I was an officer.
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Weissman: And what about pioneer women?
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Raphael: Pioneer women. I'm everything.
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Weissman: Oh.
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Raphael: For South Hills chapter. See, as I say, we used to meet at, uh,
uh, once a month for a board meeting. Once a month for a regular meeting.
And little by little, little by little. Susie Q joined her Dassa. So she's
going to quit Pioneer women go on with her sister. Her, uh, Susie Khuta
Hadassah. Why? Because-- I don't know. I don't know. And it's still going
for Israel, but I'm still keeping the ties with 16 or 18 or 20 members.
I've been president for four years. President pro tem for four years. Uh,
I'm fundraising. I'm dues. I'm, um telephone. I'm, um Donor Chairman. I'm,
uh, advocate [??] chairman. Uh, Israel bonds, JNF. If it's be a
representation to go help with UJF I'm there. I do have a so called
secretary treasurer which signs the checks. But then the last year and a
half, I even have to go deposit the checks. Luckily that the bank is right
here. So do you know when I go? The bus here runs from 5 to 6 in the
evening. So I tally up all my checks, and Friday I make it my business to
go up the hill with the bus. The bank opens here 6:00. Weissman: Friday
night. Raphael: And I get a receipt. And then when I see my treasurer once
in three months or once in six months, I give her all the receipts. And
then from there I go right to temple.
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Weissman: Were you ever a member of a labor union? Raphael: No. Weissman:
Kaufmann's never had any?
00:24:31.000 --> 00:25:37.000
Raphael: No, I'll tell you, they, they had a union, but no [??]. When my
father died very suddenly, they were dickering and trying to form a union
then. And they pressured me, and they scared me and scared me. And I was in
such a depressed frame of mind. I didn't want to listen to anything. I, um.
I didn't care to hear what Joe Blow had to say or what Susie Q had to say,
but they pressured me with unkind words. And when they say unkind words
like, you're going to lose your job, you're going to be fired and things
like that, that to me was going too far, and I didn't want to listen to
them nohow. And I figured they're not paying my salary. If Kaufmann's want
them, they'll keep me and pay me my salary. And I didn't go with them. And
out of a whole oh, I don't know how many there was on our floor. There was
three of us, three that didn't join.
00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:54.000
Weissman: That's a distinction. All right. Now we come to the Great
Depression of the 1930, which affected everyone. [Raphael: Oh yes.] Could
you tell me how it affected you and those in your family?
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:58.000
Raphael: Sad to say, my brother lost a lot of money.
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Weissman: Uh, Sam.
00:26:00.000 --> 00:26:17.000
Raphael: Which was part of my earnings, too. But I never said anything
because whatever I-- whatever he suggested, if I wanted to invest and is
this going into-- is this going to be broadcasting.
00:26:17.000 --> 00:26:29.000
Weissman: Not Broadcast, it'll be individual people doing research. Well,
it affected you. You lost money. We could leave it at that if we don't want
to go to anything too painful.
00:26:29.000 --> 00:26:37.000
Raphael: But I never. I never questioned my brother one bit, but he did
lose.
00:26:37.000 --> 00:26:39.000
Weissman: That happened [Raphael: A big fortune.] to many, many people.
Raphael: Of course, my--
00:26:39.000 --> 00:27:05.000
Raphael: father had to go to bat. You know what I mean? And, um. Thank God
we came out of it. My father did not invest on his name, see? So that, God
forbid, it shouldn't affect the business. You know what I mean? My father
was not interested, period. See, And I gave my brother money.
00:27:05.000 --> 00:27:06.000
Weissman: For the stock market?
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:17.000
Raphael: To invest because he suggested to me, you see, I never asked him
how much or what. I just automatically did.
00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:25.000
Weissman: And, uh. All right. What? You knew of other people that lost
money during the Depression?
00:27:25.000 --> 00:27:42.000
Raphael: It was pathetic. It was pathetic. People when they talk now and
tell you about standing in corners selling apples for a nickel an apple. It
was pathetic. They were talking with tears coming from their heart.
00:27:42.000 --> 00:27:55.000
Weissman: Uh, what else do you remember about it? Some families had to
take in other parts of the family to live with them. Did anything like that
happen?
00:27:55.000 --> 00:28:33.000
Raphael: No, we didn't. Because, well, uh, my aunt was in another part of
another city. My uncle was in another city. Uh, we did have an uncle. Uh,
one of my uncles had lived in Fair City. He did lose everything to the
point that, um, he was only allowed to take his $300 allowance, and we had
to walk away from a home and a store and a business, you know what I mean?
And they came to Pittsburgh and it really affected me. He lost his life.
00:28:33.000 --> 00:28:36.000
Weissman: But Dad was able to stay in the clothing business.
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:46.000
Raphael: Luckily, my father had paid for the building. He did not owe
anybody a cent. That was my father's motto.
00:28:46.000 --> 00:29:10.000
Weissman: And did customers-- Raphael: Never, never buy anything, he
always used to preach to us with a $0.01 pencil. And years ago you could
buy a pencil for a cent, now you can't buy a pencil for a cent. He used to
preach to us with a $0.01 pencil you can figure out what you can afford,
what you can do and what you can't do. Don't buy it if you can't pay for
it.
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:15.000
Weissman: Well, his business must have suffered. Did he have charge
accounts in those days?
00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:31.000
Raphael: Yes, he did. He did. He had a lot of people that he had given
credit and people that were really in need. The one person in particular, a
doctor that had 13 children.
00:29:31.000 --> 00:29:35.000
Weissman: And did the doctor repay him when things got better? Raphael:
Yes.
00:29:35.000 --> 00:29:36.000
Raphael: Eventually, yes.
00:29:36.000 --> 00:29:39.000
Weissman: You'd say most of the customers? Raphael: Yes.
00:29:39.000 --> 00:30:12.000
Raphael: There was a lot of money that I still have that old book of money
that's outstanding. And a plumber in particular. He wouldn't come and fix a
pipe because he was getting, like they say now, Social Security. Weissman:
Yeah. And my father said, then you'll take it off the bill. I don't want
you to do this for nothing. You'll pay off your bill. And he says, Dave, I
can't come.
00:30:12.000 --> 00:30:13.000
Weissman: He was on welfare, I guess.
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:14.000
Raphael: Oh, that's it. He was on welfare.
00:30:14.000 --> 00:30:24.000
Weissman: Welfare. Any other memories of those days?
00:30:24.000 --> 00:30:36.000
Raphael: Well, nothing. Uh, I guess I'd have to really sit and study for a
while. We all worked. We all lived within our means.
00:30:36.000 --> 00:31:36.000
Weissman: Was Sam going to dental school at the same time? Raphael: Oh
yes, Sam went to school and he, he was--
